Bagger - what do you mean when you say "learn to hit the ball with your pivot"?
Consider a pivot-driven swing in a swinger - he uses the pivot to load and release PA#4.
Here is an example of the release of PA#4 - by Ben Hogan.
When PA#4 is released in the mid-downswing, the left arm moves towards impact, and then PA#2 and then PA#3 are released passively.
Is that what you mean by "learn to hit the ball with your pivot"?
Jeff.
Jeff why do you consider Hogan has released all of #4 at this point? Why do you consider Hogan passively releases $3 when he has so much of it to roll out. Ever consider Hogan blew some #3 off earlier?
You insist he is a swinger and does it by the yellow book ( so to speak) but how does this match up to a cp release with an angle hinge orientation ?
Pistol - I was taught here at this website that PA#4 is completely released when the left arm-chest wall angle is 90 degrees. Hogan achieves that 90 degree release angle by impact, so I presume that he has completely released PA#4 by impact.
It is my personal opinion that Hogan is a swinger - based on watching his swing video many times. If I am correct, then PA#3 release is essentially a passive phenomenon and not due to the active release of PA#1 that thrusts the straightening right arm through impact. If you have reason to believe otherwise, please provide the "evidence" (and the statement "I wish I had three right hands cannot be considered "evidence").
I do not believe that Hogan always used angled hinging, He sometimes employed horizontal hinging. However, I think that he preferred angled hinging because he preferred a power fade shot, rather than a low penetrating draw. I think that he was skilled enough to use either angled or horizontal hinging at will.
Pistol - I was taught here at this website that PA#4 is completely released when the left arm-chest wall angle is 90 degrees. Hogan achieves that 90 degree release angle by impact, so I presume that he has completely released PA#4 by impact.
It is my personal opinion that Hogan is a swinger - based on watching his swing video many times. If I am correct, then PA#3 release is essentially a passive phenomenon and not due to the active release of PA#1 that thrusts the straightening right arm through impact. If you have reason to believe otherwise, please provide the "evidence" (and the statement "I wish I had three right hands cannot be considered "evidence").
I do not believe that Hogan always used angled hinging, He sometimes employed horizontal hinging. However, I think that he preferred angled hinging because he preferred a power fade shot, rather than a low penetrating draw. I think that he was skilled enough to use either angled or horizontal hinging at will.
Jeff.
Jeff you put up a youtube clip showing Hogan not even close to impact showing release of #4 and now you say he releases all of it by impact...im confused ..seems like you are contradicting yourself now.
Why would hh produce a low draw? and angle h a low fade?
Can you produce footage of Hogan post 1950's using a hh?
Homer says to use elbow plane it requires an earlier release of #3..what would #1 have to do with this and 3 right hands?
What about what Venturi said of Hogan and what he said in the locker room that its elbow to elbow..inferring he paints a dot on the inside of the arm/elbow joint and points it to the sky.
Consider the downswing is over in aprox .3 sec and it takes the brain .2 sec approx to send the signal to the arms/hands would that not make some sense that Hogan actively supinated his left elbow during the downswing which would in turn initiate the #3 release?
Pistol - that video by Golfbulldog shows that Hogan starts to release at that time point, but release is not completed until impact. What's the contradiction?
HH produces a low draw because the clubface is constantly closing during impact, while AH produces a half-layback situation (halfway between closing and layback) and that produces a a small degree of slice spin due to a small degree of compression leakage.
Where does HK state that using the elbow plane requires an earlier release of PA#3, and what is meant by an earlier release?
In this swing video of Tiger Woods, he is on the elbow plane in the late downswing and he has no problem with a late release of PA#3.
You wrote-: "What about what Venturi said of Hogan and what he said in the locker room that its elbow to elbow..inferring he paints a dot on the inside of the arm/elbow joint and points it to the sky."
I don't know what you are actually describing and I also don't know what point you are trying to make.
You wrote-: "Consider the downswing is over in aprox .3 sec and it takes the brain .2 sec approx to send the signal to the arms/hands would that not make some sense that Hogan actively supinated his left elbow during the downswing which would in turn initiate the #3 release?"
I presume that you made a typo when you stated "elbow" rather than forearm. One cannot supinate the elbow. However, one can perform a supinatory left forearm action. Why should Hogan's left forearm supinatory action need to be active? What's wrong with passive - activated by an assertive torso rotation through the impact zone?
Everybody needs to have their version of 2-R - a get out clause for using images out of desired context!
The clip I posted, which Jeff referenced, was meant to show the initial movement of left arm off the chest, with left upper arm not being help tightly to the chest wall.
You can not tell how much acc.4 has released at impact (last frame) because of the video angle.
You can make no conclusion re. wrist motion/acc 3 release from this clip.
Pistol - that video by Golfbulldog shows that Hogan starts to release at that time point, but release is not completed until impact. What's the contradiction?
Seems to me Jeff you put a video/picture to suit your purpose but how come plenty of other vids/pict of Hogan show other results
HH produces a low draw because the clubface is constantly closing during impact, while AH produces a half-layback situation (halfway between closing and layback) and that produces a a small degree of slice spin due to a small degree of compression leakage.
Jeff you are stating basics..lots of other factors determine ballflight..trackman!!
Where does HK state that using the elbow plane requires an earlier release of PA#3, and what is meant by an earlier release?
somewhere ..surely you got all copies ..read
In this swing video of Tiger Woods, he is on the elbow plane in the late downswing and he has no problem with a late release of PA#3.
Cant be bothered watching the video Jeff cause no comparison to Hogan and he had way less #3 to release and more cf position usually
You wrote-: "What about what Venturi said of Hogan and what he said in the locker room that its elbow to elbow..inferring he paints a dot on the inside of the arm/elbow joint and points it to the sky."
I don't know what you are actually describing and I also don't know what point you are trying to make.
Seems pretty obvious what Venturi said ..check out the ed sullivan show
You wrote-: "Consider the downswing is over in aprox .3 sec and it takes the brain .2 sec approx to send the signal to the arms/hands would that not make some sense that Hogan actively supinated his left elbow during the downswing which would in turn initiate the #3 release?"
I presume that you made a typo when you stated "elbow" rather than forearm. One cannot supinate the elbow. However, one can perform a supinatory left forearm action. Why should Hogan's left forearm supinatory action need to be active? What's wrong with passive - activated by an assertive torso rotation through the impact zone?
No there is no typo error Jeff but i know what you are getting at in terms of medical function ..however Hogan was smarter than you cause he had some #2 left while triggering #3 so his clubface rotation was limited
Jeff.
I am willing to participate in a debate where I can get to interchange opinions with a person who describes his opinions in a constructively communicative manner that is designed to enhance understanding of a person's opinions, rather to exhibit "one-upmanship".
A statement like -: "Seems pretty obvious what Venturi said ..check out the ed sullivan show" is not designed to constructively communicate. Nor are these statements-: "somewhere ..surely you got all copies ..read." and "Can't be bothered watching the video Jeff cause no comparison to Hogan and he had way less #3 to release and more cf position usually."
If you are really interested in educating me re: your viewpoint, then you need to provide expansive commentary that makes your viewpoint(s) understandable.
Jeff you put up a youtube clip showing Hogan not even close to impact showing release of #4 and now you say he releases all of it by impact...im confused ..seems like you are contradicting yourself now.
Why would hh produce a low draw? and angle h a low fade?
Can you produce footage of Hogan post 1950's using a hh?
Homer says to use elbow plane it requires an earlier release of #3..what would #1 have to do with this and 3 right hands?
What about what Venturi said of Hogan and what he said in the locker room that its elbow to elbow..inferring he paints a dot on the inside of the arm/elbow joint and points it to the sky.
Consider the downswing is over in aprox .3 sec and it takes the brain .2 sec approx to send the signal to the arms/hands would that not make some sense that Hogan actively supinated his left elbow during the downswing which would in turn initiate the #3 release?
i did some google and youtube and cant find anything about Venturi and Sullivan, any chance you could give us some links?
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