1) "I agree that the lag pressure point is driving the club. And by "driving" i mean adding energy to the club."
How does PP#3 add energy to the club considering that PP#3 is simply the right index finger against the back of the club?
2) "The point is that centripetal force doesn't add energy to the golf swing. It only stores the energy that has been added through the work of tangential forces."
How does a centripetal force store energy? Stored where? To what purpose? Is that energy eventually released? When, and how?
3) "The centripetal force that we have to produce to keep the club swinging is an effect of the velocity introduced by tangential forces."
Why is a centripetal force needed to keep the club swinging? You then immediately state that centripetal force is an "effect" and the "cause" of that effect is the "velocity produced by tangential forces". From where is this tangential force derived? When those tangential forces act to increase velocity - velocity of what? How does velocity of "what" produce a centripetal force?
4) "The tangential component is the one that increases the swing speed. It adds velocity energy to all the moving parts of the swing. The centripetal component changes the speed simply by changing the direction of the movement". How does a change in direction increase swing speed? Speed of "what"?
5) "More clubhead lag (the further the golf shaft points away from the neck) will mean a larger ratio of longitudunal /centripetal force."
Why? If the club lag is 90 degrees, why is there a higher ratio of longitudinal/centripetal force compared to a situation where the clubhead lag is 75 degrees?
6) "The actual golf stroke is an harmonic blend of tangential force that builds speed and centripetal force that purely helps us store the speed that's already there. You need to apply a centripetal force of increasing size to account for the ever increasing energy that is accumulated by tangential force."
Where does the centripetal force store the speed? If one uses a tangential force to move "what" why is energy accumulated? If the swinging "what" travels at a faster speed, why must centripetal force increase?
Somehow for some unknown reason I knew Bernt was gonna cop this ...love the note on the end in brackets.What Jeff really meant was ..since he is a physics expert himself ..is that you have just wrote a whole lot of bs..entertaining stuff
To understand a person's viewpoint, I need very simple explanations where every sentence is well-defined in terms of definitions and concepts, and where all the sentences are carefully connected so as to finally produce a coherent storyline.
Here is a photo of a golfer's clubhead swingarc.
One can see that the clubshaft/clubhead moves down-and-out-and forwards along a circular arc in the downswing. Therefore, the forces needed to move the clubhead need to achieve two goals from an energy perspective - i) move the clubshead at a finite speed in space and ii) move the clubhead in a circular arc (which is equivalent to supplying the clubhead with centripetal acceleration while it is traveling at its finite speed).
I would like to see Bernt use that simple model to describe the forces needed, and their mechanism of energy storage and release.
I would like to see Bernt use that simple model to describe the forces needed, and their mechanism of energy storage and release.
Jeff.
First you need tangential forces to make the club move at all. Then you need more of the same to get proper swing speed.
At the same time you need centripetal force to make the club move in a circle instead of flying down the driving range.
You should also be aware that the centripetal force is not a force per se in the golf swing. Because there isn't anything in there that is pulling from the swing center. The centripetal force is merely result of decomposing the total force on the club in a centripetal component and a tangential component - and possibly other components too - that will will reduce the quality of the stroke.
1) "I agree that the lag pressure point is driving the club. And by "driving" i mean adding energy to the club."
How does PP#3 add energy to the club considering that PP#3 is simply the right index finger against the back of the club?
When you apply a force to an object - and the object moves (partly) same direction, you energize the object. Same thing here. This is very basic mechanics.
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2) "The point is that centripetal force doesn't add energy to the golf swing. It only stores the energy that has been added through the work of tangential forces."
How does a centripetal force store energy? Stored where? To what purpose? Is that energy eventually released? When, and how?
It lets the swing keep it's speed. The precise formula is 1/2 mv2. For each molecule that is moving. So you need to do some integral calculus to get the exact result.
The energy is released as the club stops to move.
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3) "The centripetal force that we have to produce to keep the club swinging is an effect of the velocity introduced by tangential forces."
Why is a centripetal force needed to keep the club swinging?
Just spend some time googling "centripetal force". And you can start with the link I put up.
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You then immediately state that centripetal force is an "effect" and the "cause" of that effect is the "velocity produced by tangential forces".
From where is this tangential force derived?
From the left shoulder pull, from PP 1,3, 4 and their combination.
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When those tangential forces act to increase velocity - velocity of what? How does velocity of "what" produce a centripetal force?
You really have no idea of what I'm talking about do you?
Let me see - what is moved during the swing? Clubhead, clubshaft, hands, arms partly upper body.
Anything that moves in circle is subjected to a centripetal force. But you need to understand what a centripetal force really is to have any progress in this regard.
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4) "The tangential component is the one that increases the swing speed. It adds velocity energy to all the moving parts of the swing. The centripetal component changes the speed simply by changing the direction of the movement".
How does a change in direction increase swing speed? Speed of "what"?
Good question. the answer: It doesn't increase swing speed. But the change of direction is the only reason that the accelleration caused by centripetal force is called accelleration. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But it is grossly misleading to golfers.
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5) "More clubhead lag (the further the golf shaft points away from the neck) will mean a larger ratio of longitudunal /centripetal force."
Why? If the club lag is 90 degrees, why is there a higher ratio of longitudinal/centripetal force compared to a situation where the clubhead lag is 75 degrees?
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Because the alternative will have less clubhead lag. If you think "rope handling" technique, it should be clear that the total forces on the club has the same direction as the rope.
6) "The actual golf stroke is an harmonic blend of tangential force that builds speed and centripetal force that purely helps us store the speed that's already there. You need to apply a centripetal force of increasing size to account for the ever increasing energy that is accumulated by tangential force."
Where does the centripetal force store the speed?
In the moving club. And having it go in a circle is a very attractive alternative to the ... alternative, don't you think?
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If one uses a tangential force to move "what" why is energy accumulated?
Because the the tangential force adds speed to what's already in the swing. The swing speed builds up gradually. If it didn't there wouldnt be any point in having a full back swing.
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If the swinging "what" travels at a faster speed, why must centripetal force increase?
Jeff.
If the swinging MASS travels at a faster speed a larger centripetal force is required to maintain the swing radius. Of course to a certain extent the swing radius does increase so the CF probably doesn't increase as much as the swing speed.
Hybrid Mode
