I hope I m staying on track, but I have been thinking about how my right elbow works while keeping a bent right wrist on the downstroke. It seems I have a difficult time keeping the bent right wrist during hitting procedures. I am much more successful using a pitch right elbow 10-3-B and feeling like the right arm is pulling rather than pushing. This is true for me even when practicing basic motion.
I had previously been thinking:
Hitting = Pushing, right side driven
Swinging = Pulling, left side driven
Is it possible to use the label swinger using an active right arm feels as though it is pulling? Possible to involve the right arm pulling in 4 barrel swinging?
Perhaps I am too worried about proper labels? Thank you for any clarification. If I am straying from the proper path please nudge me back on it.
Thanks,
Kevin
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I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
you are heading along the lines of a classic debate.... read anything by delawaregolf...Tom Tomasello...right arm pulling... australian TT video etc...
They argue that you can have a left arm/shoulder centred swing with a right arm active pull sensation...although if the right arm were actually doing the pulling...then the right elbow will have replaced the left shoulder as the swing centre...and you are "right arm swinger"....not a unTGM thing (video of HK on youtube admiring right arm swingers) ...but not the classic swinger.
The position of the right elbow is a anatomical alignment consequent of its function...hence if you drive load (to push with non-rotated pp3) it will be in a different position at top...which then leads naturally to punch elbow on DS....and then to angle of approach and then to angled hinge...hitting....same goes for swinging....
Try and work on pulling with the body...through your left arm...load pp4 (also pp3 rotates)....and then work out what position the right elbow/forearm should be in to support the clubshaft (secondary lever ...see 7-3) while you pull....imagine (or actually do it with left arm only ...swing to top/end...get someone to hold the sweetspot tightly....) a really heavy weight being pulled by your pivot, through your left arm...then work out intuitively where the right arm should go...when you load pp4 you will find the right elbow gives best support when it points down more...now - just for the sake of learning - put your right elbow more out - as per hitter or almost flying elbow style - it gives no suppport to the pull...hence it is not a swingers position / alignment....the right elbow pointing down then flows easily to pitch elbow...release swivel...impact...horizontal hinge...swivel back to plane...swinging.
BUT it all stems from understanding loading of the shaft...elbow positions are secondary to that.
If you pull with your pivot you are a left arm swinger... supposedly less tendon damage than right arm swinger (ie.if you pull solely with your right arm)...but if you pull with your pivot and you FEEL some right arm sensation...thats fine...that is Yoda's interpretation of what DG and TT have been describing all along.
The bit of the book is in 7-3...the key...watch the video..."PP3 where are you"...(i'm sure you have already)...but worth watching again.
What an AMAZING answer. I am not at all interested in debate, I am here to learn from you guys. I am happy to hear that I'm not the first to wonder about this, now I don't feel quite as silly.
I am off to visit 7-3 and to revisit "PP3 where are you". Thank you VERY much for taking the time to help me, as always!!!
Kevin
Originally Posted by golfbulldog
Hi Kevin,
you are heading along the lines of a classic debate.... read anything by delawaregolf...Tom Tomasello...right arm pulling... australian TT video etc...
They argue that you can have a left arm/shoulder centred swing with a right arm active pull sensation...although if the right arm were actually doing the pulling...then the right elbow will have replaced the left shoulder as the swing centre...and you are "right arm swinger"....not a unTGM thing (video of HK on youtube admiring right arm swingers) ...but not the classic swinger.
The position of the right elbow is a anatomical alignment consequent of its function...hence if you drive load (to push with non-rotated pp3) it will be in a different position at top...which then leads naturally to punch elbow on DS....and then to angle of approach and then to angled hinge...hitting....same goes for swinging....
Try and work on pulling with the body...through your left arm...load pp4 (also pp3 rotates)....and then work out what position the right elbow/forearm should be in to support the clubshaft (secondary lever ...see 7-3) while you pull....imagine (or actually do it with left arm only ...swing to top/end...get someone to hold the sweetspot tightly....) a really heavy weight being pulled by your pivot, through your left arm...then work out intuitively where the right arm should go...when you load pp4 you will find the right elbow gives best support when it points down more...now - just for the sake of learning - put your right elbow more out - as per hitter or almost flying elbow style - it gives no suppport to the pull...hence it is not a swingers position / alignment....the right elbow pointing down then flows easily to pitch elbow...release swivel...impact...horizontal hinge...swivel back to plane...swinging.
BUT it all stems from understanding loading of the shaft...elbow positions are secondary to that.
If you pull with your pivot you are a left arm swinger... supposedly less tendon damage than right arm swinger (ie.if you pull solely with your right arm)...but if you pull with your pivot and you FEEL some right arm sensation...thats fine...that is Yoda's interpretation of what DG and TT have been describing all along.
The bit of the book is in 7-3...the key...watch the video..."PP3 where are you"...(i'm sure you have already)...but worth watching again.
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
7-3. There it is. Homer thought of EVERYTHING. Didn't he?
I had not yet read this information, man, I have a long way to go. Thank God for the help here from you and all the others. How in the world did folks like Yoda learn this stuff before the internet?
Thanks again,
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Kev....FWIW....personally, I definitely "feel" my right arm pulling....also when I get to the top of my backswing I need to make sure that my right elbow needs to beat my hands in a "race to the bottom" to impact....for me, this move also keeps my shoulder on plane (down THEN rotate)...
Maintaining that frozen, vertical, bent right wrist is a "big deal" for me...I think it's because my right hand always wants to get over involved in the swing...naturally because my whole life I've done everything right handed...
I've been doing lots of one handed drills & it's helping lots...."feels" are personal & individual & ultimately that's what we're going to be able to reproduce out on the golf course....
Kev....FWIW....personally, I definitely "feel" my right arm pulling....also when I get to the top of my backswing I need to make sure that my right elbow needs to beat my hands in a "race to the bottom" to impact....for me, this move also keeps my shoulder on plane (down THEN rotate)...
Maintaining that frozen, vertical, bent right wrist is a "big deal" for me...I think it's because my right hand always wants to get over involved in the swing...naturally because my whole life I've done everything right handed...
I've been doing lots of one handed drills & it's helping lots...."feels" are personal & individual & ultimately that's what we're going to be able to reproduce out on the golf course....
Thanks for the reply Allen. Sounds like we have very similar "feels." I picked up an impact bag, and am about to load it up. I'll go back to Alignment Golf to check out Yoda's drills, and I will also follow your advise and do some one arm drills. Should be very doable with the impact bag indoors with basic motion... man, I can't wait for the snow to melt. I have a ton of new stuff to work on!
Thanks and Merry Christmas!
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
Absolutely....lots to work on !!....another idea, in my basement I put a line of masking tape (at ball position)...then doing right hand/arm only swings which improves my pivot...my goal is NOT to hit that piece of tape....hitting the tape would be equivalent to a "fat" shot at the range....for me....I hit the tape WHEN my right wrist loses it's frozen bent condition...after 6 weeks of doing this drill DAILY...guess what?.....I don't hit the tape very often...I also started doing this drill with a weighted club....makes your regular club feel like a toothpick !!......of course also doing Left arm only as well....MAGIC
Absolutely....lots to work on !!....another idea, in my basement I put a line of masking tape (at ball position)...then doing right hand/arm only swings which improves my pivot...my goal is NOT to hit that piece of tape....hitting the tape would be equivalent to a "fat" shot at the range....for me....I hit the tape WHEN my right wrist loses it's frozen bent condition...after 6 weeks of doing this drill DAILY...guess what?.....I don't hit the tape very often...I also started doing this drill with a weighted club....makes your regular club feel like a toothpick !!......of course also doing Left arm only as well....MAGIC
MERRY CHRISTMAS !!
GREAT ideas Allen. Thanks again!!!
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
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