Ogrady was one of Homer's most fervent pupils (although he maintains TGM has tragic flaws) Speaking of controversies...the right shoulder business will get some people fired up! DG, correct me if I am wrong but TT felt that lowering the right shoulder would cause the axis of the spine to tilt and that it would clear the right hip as an effect. But the general TGM consensus is that shifting the hips laterally will tilt the axis of the spine and clear the right hip. Like many I have hit thousands of balls toying with this stuff. Like everything else you find what works for you and try to describe what you think you are doing as close to what you are actually doing. To this end TGM is without peer. Having said that this is what I think: I think that the hips initiate, but I feel as though my right shoulder comes hurtling down the face of the plane. When I think hips I hit it crap...when I think right shoulder I hit it well. Looking at my swing on video there is no doubt that my lower half moves first. In this pic I was focused on two things from a feel point of few. Extensor action and my right shoulder moving assertively down plane at the ball. The EA was there but as I mentioned in another post my right arm straightened a bit prematurely and I hit a solid pull-draw (carried about 20 yards shorter than usual due to the slighly closed face...but ran out nicely!)
I do not want to start another what tilts the axis war, or what starts the downswing but rather mention that the most enduring swing thought that I have ever had (other than "Don't choke you bastard!")is "Drive the right shoulder down until you hit dirt...then drive some more...you bastard!"My axis tilts, the right hip issue the right shoulder and elbow an invitation to proceed. Passing point: Getting my head more centered at address helped a lot. I used to set up with my head hanging over my right knee. This would result in too much axis tilt.
Nice post Herman!
And . . . pretty sexy picture there too big boyeeee! Can you put up the whole sequence?
To your point . . . there are TWO was that one could tilt one's tea cup . . . . get the spine leaning via moving the head BACK (right shoulder would have a down component and not enough OUT) . . . or tilt the spiney spine via the HIPS going forward . . . (I do . . . spin shoulders THEN tilt back . . . no good). Now you said you hit a pull draw b/c you ran outta right arm . . . why do you think you done that thare? There is a link to lag pressure, club shaft and club face control (right arm control as well) via the pivot train.
I like your lines pretty good here . . . right leg straighty . . . left knee still bent nicely . . . shoulder ain't spinnin' early . . . pretty good bossmagnus!
For a compare to "perfection" . . . .
You is . . . slightly less left knee bendy . . . slightly more tilty at this point . . . and Hogan is swinging a driver here too . . . Sooooooo . . . . IF and I say IF . . . you wanna change things a bit . . . more closed coming down . . . more knee bend left knee which translates in to more hip slant . . . which would translate in to more lag and a sharper angle of attack . . . and less face pullieeez.
Also . . . from DTL . . . How does the face look? Can't quite tell here . . .but could be slightly shutty? that could result in your pull draw pretty quick too.
but all that being said . . . you look pretty HAWT at this point. Me likey. Let's see the the whole thang.
Come back . . .
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 01-28-2010 at 05:39 PM.
Interesting to study tigers position right there. It looks like he uses both feet to turn his hips - to a larger extent than the two others. His body seems to be working in three planes at the same time it seems: Shifting weight forward, rotating the hips on a flat-inclined plane and rotatin the shoulders on a steep plane. Some very advanced pivot work going on in that body.
And . . . pretty sexy picture there too big boyeeee! Can you put up the whole sequence?
To your point . . . there are TWO was that one could tilt one's tea cup . . . . get the spine leaning via moving the head BACK (right shoulder would have a down component and not enough OUT) . . . or tilt the spiney spine via the HIPS going forward . . . (I do . . . spin shoulders THEN tilt back . . . no good). Now you said you hit a pull draw b/c you ran outta right arm . . . why do you think you done that thare? There is a link to lag pressure, club shaft and club face control (right arm control as well) via the pivot train.
I like your lines pretty good here . . . right leg straighty . . . left knee still bent nicely . . . shoulder ain't spinnin' early . . . pretty good bossmagnus!
For a compare to "perfection" . . . .
You is . . . slightly less left knee bendy . . . slightly more tilty at this point . . . and Hogan is swinging a driver here too . . . Sooooooo . . . . IF and I say IF . . . you wanna change things a bit . . . more closed coming down . . . more knee bend left knee which translates in to more hip slant . . . which would translate in to more lag and a sharper angle of attack . . . and less face pullieeez.
Also . . . from DTL . . . How does the face look? Can't quite tell here . . .but could be slightly shutty? that could result in your pull draw pretty quick too.
but all that being said . . . you look pretty HAWT at this point. Me likey. Let's see the the whole thang.
Come back . . .
After what you did to that poor goat?!! Thanks for the analysis. An old dude comes up to me one day and says "I like your swing. Can I take a few pics?" Ordinarily that is enough to thrown down and go to fighting, but he had this high tech looking camera. Long story short he took a few pics. He sent me a bunch of proof sheets. I have not gone through them all. I do not think there are many more of this particular shot.
I agree with what you say. Face is a little shutty. Also what is happening here is that I am losing my spine angle a bit. I started off a little slumped (shoulder turn was too steep)so I flattened my approach by standing up and laying the shaft down. Solution: better posture with more knee bend. I still think that my major fault here is essentially a pivot stall. My right shoulder stops the right elbow straightens, thankfully not too soon as to cause a radical flattening of the right wrist When we thaw out here I will put up grainier before and after shots. My impact alignments have improved.
After what you did to that poor goat?!! Thanks for the analysis. An old dude comes up to me one day and says "I like your swing. Can I take a few pics?" Ordinarily that is enough to thrown down and go to fighting, but he had this high tech looking camera. Long story short he took a few pics. He sent me a bunch of proof sheets. I have not gone through them all. I do not think there are many more of this particular shot.
I agree with what you say. Face is a little shutty. Also what is happening here is that I am losing my spine angle a bit. I started off a little slumped (shoulder turn was too steep)so I flattened my approach by standing up and laying the shaft down. Solution: better posture with more knee bend. I still think that my major fault here is essentially a pivot stall. My right shoulder stops the right elbow straightens, thankfully not too soon as to cause a radical flattening of the right wrist When we thaw out here I will put up grainier before and after shots. My impact alignments have improved.
I do the same thing . . . but worse than you . . . . If you spine is getting vertical to soon may want to do some drilling OVERCOOKING the opposite. Get in the mirror and do some start down stuff where you actually increase your waist bend RADICALLY. Kinda like you were gonna squat down and pick something up in front of your left foot. Hips sliding forward and bootox going back toward the wall behind you and chest going down. From there imagine that you pick up a big rock and you is gonna sling it way up in the air out infront of you. That'll save the goat from what you were gonna do and the rock deal will let your hips go up and keep turning . . . no more stall.
I do the same thing . . . but worse than you . . . . If you spine is getting vertical to soon may want to do some drilling OVERCOOKING the opposite. Get in the mirror and do some start down stuff where you actually increase your waist bend RADICALLY. Kinda like you were gonna squat down and pick something up in front of your left foot. Hips sliding forward and bootox going back toward the wall behind you and chest going down. From there imagine that you pick up a big rock and you is gonna sling it way up in the air out infront of you. That'll save the goat from what you were gonna do and the rock deal will let your hips go up and keep turning . . . no more stall.
I deal with this issue with Swingers all the time. Your "Intention" should be to take your stroke to both Arms straight at Follow Through (6-A-4, Section 8-11). Only then will you be able to "swing through the ball, not at it" as Ken Venturi always stressed. To break a board in half karate style with your fist, you must take your force through the board, not at it.
When the player’s intention is to hit at the ball, the Pivot stops moving, the right arm (third side of the triangle assembly) straightens too soon, and low point bottoms out before the club gets to the ball. If you tried to break a board that way, you may as well call the emergency room and tell them to expect you shortly.
The computer between the ears won't allow you to continue to hit the ground behind the ball so a) the center must move away from the ball (getting to really know your Goat) or b) excessive Throwaway is employed.
Takes a few old golf clubs and hurl them down the range when no one is around and there is nothing that can break behind you as Jack Burke Sr. and more recently Fred Shoemaker use as a corner stone to their teaching. If you have a video camera, record your motion. You will be amazed when your intention changes from "at" to "through". Your Pivot keeps moving, your Right Arm remains bent at Impact, your acceleration improves and you now comply with 1-L-15. All this just because you changed your intent.
Great stuff Drew! I have been mulling over posture-related stuff recently. I think I straighten my spine on the downstroke as a compensation for a spine angle that is too steep to begin with. Rereading Hogan's Five Modern Fundamentals I was taken back by the method hogan used to organize himself at address.
1. Stand erect.
2. Lower arms
3. Flex knees while keeping the spine erect
4. Bow head from the neck without hunching the shoulders.
The spine angle in his case is created by the out of line condition that exists between a straight spine and flexed knees.
Between the straight spine and flexed knees you cannot help but have a flat shoulder and hip turn, right? My point is that perhaps I am better served with a more "upright" torso posture as opposed to increasing the bend coming down?
On the pics of Hogan the degree of waistbend from a 7 iron to a driver is negligible. Not something I notices before. The amount of knee bend (obscured by tailored pants) and neck bend is what makes it look different at first glance. A lot of tour types stand tall.
Great stuff Drew! I have been mulling over posture-related stuff recently. I think I straighten my spine on the downstroke as a compensation for a spine angle that is too steep to begin with. Rereading Hogan's Five Modern Fundamentals I was taken back by the method hogan used to organize himself at address.
1. Stand erect.
2. Lower arms
3. Flex knees while keeping the spine erect
4. Bow head from the neck without hunching the shoulders.
The spine angle in his case is created by the out of line condition that exists between a straight spine and flexed knees.
Between the straight spine and flexed knees you cannot help but have a flat shoulder and hip turn, right? My point is that perhaps I am better served with a more "upright" torso posture as opposed to increasing the bend coming down?
On the pics of Hogan the degree of waistbend from a 7 iron to a driver is negligible. Not something I notices before. The amount of knee bend (obscured by tailored pants) and neck bend is what makes it look different at first glance. A lot of tour types stand tall.
if you put of pics of Hogan at the top . . . . I'd submit that you'll find different numbers . . . . adds waist bend . . . I think.
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 02-04-2010 at 10:35 PM.
Is it waist bend, or knee bend? I agree that increasing waistbend is better than standing up through the ball. But my twisted logic is that being too bent over tends to promote coming out of your spine angle, especially if you are on a flatter plane.
I deal with this issue with Swingers all the time. Your "Intention" should be to take your stroke to both Arms straight at Follow Through (6-A-4, Section 8-11). Only then will you be able to "swing through the ball, not at it" as Ken Venturi always stressed. To break a board in half karate style with your fist, you must take your force through the board, not at it.
When the player’s intention is to hit at the ball, the Pivot stops moving, the right arm (third side of the triangle assembly) straightens too soon, and low point bottoms out before the club gets to the ball. If you tried to break a board that way, you may as well call the emergency room and tell them to expect you shortly.
The computer between the ears won't allow you to continue to hit the ground behind the ball so a) the center must move away from the ball (getting to really know your Goat) or b) excessive Throwaway is employed.
Takes a few old golf clubs and hurl them down the range when no one is around and there is nothing that can break behind you as Jack Burke Sr. and more recently Fred Shoemaker use as a corner stone to their teaching. If you have a video camera, record your motion. You will be amazed when your intention changes from "at" to "through". Your Pivot keeps moving, your Right Arm remains bent at Impact, your acceleration improves and you now comply with 1-L-15. All this just because you changed your intent.
Nice stuff Drewit.
The concept of Thrusting all the way Down and Out, cross line to Both Arms Straight, Follow Through is lost on a lot of people I think. At best most people start steering the Thrust towards the hole at Low Point at worst from End.
Folks there is more down and out to be had post Low Point even when the Hands and Clubhead are traveling Up and In! See 1-L-15. Although it even states "but the Thrust continues Down Plane during Follow Through"!!
Drew, I love that bit about the intention of hitting at the ball and how it effects the pivot. The club throwing thing. Got to try that sometime.
Thanks for the analysis. An old dude comes up to me one day and says "I like your swing. Can I take a few pics?" Ordinarily that is enough to thrown down and go to fighting, but he had this high tech looking camera. Long story short he took a few pics. He sent me a bunch of proof sheets. I have not gone through them all. I do not think there are many more of this particular shot. 
When we thaw out here I will put up grainier before and after shots. My impact alignments have improved.
Hybrid Mode
