A Question for Yoda, regarding Homer and Shaft Flex

[jpeck]

My clubs did not fit because the guy gave me a little lesson so that I could hit what ever club he handed me. When I did a follow-up he gave me the same little lesson so that I could hit them again.

In order to play decent golf I would have had to hire this guy to follow me around the golf course. Understand that if I put my normal swing on any of these clubs I would be lucky to find the ball again. Block fade kept the ball on the golf course.

My reference to "standard" specs was simply to point out the difference between the two sets of clubs. As for the "experts" remarks...well, you should not have tried to make out that hg know more or do better work than anyone else. My clubs were junk.

Understand that I don't want to start one of those nasty forum wars here on Lynn's site. However, I feel duty bound to tell it like it is. hg uses testimonials to sell clubs...Well, this is my testimonial.

I've moved on from this episode in my golf but I would just like to say "Let The Buyer Beware".

Unfortunate, indeed.

I feel I have made my point and won't comment on this again.

[golfgnome]

Originally Posted by jpeck

My clubs did not fit because the guy gave me a little lesson so that I could hit what ever club he handed me. When I did a follow-up he gave me the same little lesson so that I could hit them again.

This is commonly referred to as a balance evaluation and is what HG fitters do to get the student to repeat an on-plane balanced motion.

Quote:

In order to play decent golf I would have had to hire this guy to follow me around the golf course. Understand that if I put my normal swing on any of these clubs I would be lucky to find the ball again. Block fade kept the ball on the golf course.

Sounds to me that the fitter was trying to use the clubs to get you to swing on plane better. It may "seem as if" that is what you were doing, but that is your feel. Mechanics produce and feel reproduces. You may be coming over the top or over plane because your clubs may have been to flat and an on-plane motion would make the ball go to the right.

Quote:

My reference to "standard" specs was simply to point out the difference between the two sets of clubs. As for the "experts" remarks...well, you should not have tried to make out that hg know more or do better work than anyone else. My clubs were junk.

I never tried to make out that HG knew more than anyone else, only defending what we do and the inovation that we brought to fitting. I only tried to explain that we use a different sent of specifications. As far as your clubs were junk, lets just agree that you were not happy with them. Our quality control and attention to detail is highly regarded by other companies as well.

Quote:

Understand that I don't want to start one of those nasty forum wars here on Lynn's site. However, I feel duty bound to tell it like it is. hg uses testimonials to sell clubs...Well, this is my testimonial.

No nastiness here, just trying to give a fair presentation of what HG does. There are many great teachers out there that may not be able to help you, but does that make them junky teachers.

Quote:

I've moved on from this episode in my golf but I would just like to say "Let The Buyer Beware".

An educated consumer is always the way to go. This thread is to educate and inform. I am not trying to change your views only to let others know that HG is not "junk". If someone had a bad experience with TGM they would say many bad things about the book. Would you not try to defend its merits as well?

Quote:

Unfortunate, indeed. I feel I have made my point and won't comment on this again.

I appreciate your comments as it has helped shed light on fitting and teaching and how both can be misunderstood.

[birdie_man]

I had 4 degree upright clubs once...woulda been 64 deg. 5 iron I think.

(barf!)

I dunno how Scott Hoch does it.

[efnef]

I am digging this old thread up because I have just been fitted for Henry-Griffitts irons with what are, to conventional thinking, radical specs (2" over, 5* flat). I had been having some issues with my game and went to an area teacher who has helped me greatly. Into the third lesson, we started messing with some HG shafts and heads. A video comparison with my sticks revealed how bent over I was with my "standard" length shafts (37.75" 5 iron), and how much better my posture was with longer shafts. Anyway, I scheduled a fitting that resulted in a greatly improved ball flight, not to mention a physically more comfortable swing. I will report back with results/follow up in greater detail after I receive the irons and complete the follow up sessions along with any necessary tweaking. I have noticed a lot of controversy on various internet sites regarding HG clubs, but I am only interested in improvement, and don't give a damn about what clubs I use if they help me swing better. I have a lot of faith in my instructor (I won't name names at this time, but my instructor used to work for Peter Croker and is an old friend of Tommy Tomaselo, just to drop a few names ), who seems genuinely interested in my improvement. I hope my experience is helpful to others.

[efnef]

BTW, I am aware that the extra length makes the effective lies of the 5* flat heads more upright.

[golfguru]

I have a lot of friends who are HG fitters down under so take this as a "I know both sides of the story" bit of input.

I spend so much time cutting HGs 2" overs down to a size that players can hit off grass an not a board its not funny. Everyone wants length so an extra bit of controllable clubhead speed is handy. The key word there is controllable. I see many players who can nail a club off a matt or lie board but have no chance in play of grass with +2". Most of those players are too embarrassed to go back to HG and ask for the chop as they have lost faith in not just the product but the fitting method too.

HG clubs and their fitting carts are magic. I even show the lads how to use a LM to prove some of their sales pitches but boy rather like TGM swing docs and 'the rest' there is a big difference in knowledge of real fitting. Answer is to find a TGM savy fitter be it an HG or any other fitting system

[golfgnome]

I have a lot of friends who are HG fitters down under so take this as a "I know both sides of the story" bit of input.

I spend so much time cutting HGs 2" overs down to a size that players can hit off grass an not a board its not funny. Everyone wants length so an extra bit of controllable clubhead speed is handy. The key word there is controllable. I see many players who can nail a club off a matt or lie board but have no chance in play of grass with +2". Most of those players are too embarrassed to go back to HG and ask for the chop as they have lost faith in not just the product but the fitting method too.

HG clubs and their fitting carts are magic. I even show the lads how to use a LM to prove some of their sales pitches but boy rather like TGM swing docs and 'the rest' there is a big difference in knowledge of real fitting. Answer is to find a TGM savy fitter be it an HG or any other fitting system

You make it sound like HG's "fitting method" is to fit everyone with longer clubs and that you can't play out of grass with 2" over. Please remember that the HG cart gives options that other manufacturers simply will not do. I have fit many players long and upright, short and flat, short and upright, long and flat, and yes even standard. Whatever it takes to make the student hit the ball better.

I appreciate your knowlege but I think that presenting doubt to someone who is obviously happy with his changed appearance and swing motion is wrong. The player made a point of of referencing his teacher's lineage and its TGM roots so why question the club. Have you seen him swing? Do you know his physical size and/or limitations? Why can't a player play in grass with +2"? Isn't a 5 iron 2 inches longer than a 9 iron?

Just like TGM, HG believes in options. I really wish that "standard" would go away and we could all deal with the real.

[efnef]

The reason my instructor/fitter suggested the longer shafts, was not for distance. That is not an issue. I have fairly short arms and videos of my swing revealed that I was way too bent over at address, and I would compensate with each succeeding swing by widening my stance in an attempt to reach the ball. We tried shafts at 1/2", 1", 1 1/2', 2", and 2 1/2" over before determining that 2" over 5* flat worked best (off the ground, not just the board by the way). I got the best ball flight with a nice slight draw.

I am very aware of the slagging HG takes on the Australian golf boards (such as I Seek Golf). It reminds me of the beating that Adams Golf took over at Bombsquadgolf before the proprietors at that site got in bed with Adams. Now they and their lemming readership sing the praises of Adams drivers, irons, wedges, and hybrids. As I said in my first post, I will keep you posted on how things work out, and what adjustments are made to tweak the irons, if necessary.

As for the recommendation of finding a TGM savy fitter, HG likes their fitters to be TGM authorized (many are), and their head honcho, who posts on this board is an AI, right? I already alluded to my instructor's TGM connections. The very first feedback I got at my first lesson was "we need to correct your finish swivel." The demonstration was straight out of the book.

[xyzgolfAZ]

Just some comments. I've been fitted for HG irons 3 times and woods once. Didn't buy any cause I tinker with making my own concepts on maybe 60 sets. When out of town my wife got fitted some 15 years ago and loves them still. I guess she couldn't weight for me to finish my tinkering which I still do?? Two issues with HG suprised me. When doing one iron fitting and I was not hitting the ball dead center, the fitter added 1 inch to the club and instantly I was hitting it perfect. On the wood fitting by who is now HG's CEO who also knew I changed stroke concepts almost daily (Thanks Homer) he finally had me hit about 30 degrees left with a club. I hit it straight down the middle. He changed clubs and had me hit it 30 degrees right. Again straight down the middle. Lastly, he changed clubs and asked me to aim it straight down the middle which I did for the next 5 shots. All down the middle. He then wouldn't sell me the club as he knew I would change my swing the next day anyway. Don't tell me HG doesn't know their business. Additionally, has anyone tried Wishon's MOI mateched clubs and what do they think???

[efnef]

Okay, I got the sticks today. They felt great. A very balanced feeling. Did not feel too heavy or hard to control. Nice trajectory, and most importantly, they went where I aimed them. Easy to draw and fade as well. Poor swings still had decent results (straight with some distance loss). Will have to refigure my distances (to be expected with the longer shafts). And frankly, I have NEVER carried a 5 iron 200 yards in my life. I did today. Repeatedly. And don't ever let anyone tell you that SST Puring isn't worth it in irons. IT IS.

I will take them to the course tomorrow and report back.