Hitters clubface at top

[davel]

"resistance to the deceleration of impact"...a primary concern of the hitter. As we are in the Emergency Room for Hitters, snap releases are TABOO! No maximum delay for me. Horizontal hinging would give me the heebie jeebies.

In the case of hitting isn't the primary hand speed generated by the driving of the right foream and shoulder as hard as you can through the ball using the proper hand positions.Similar to the blow I would use in hitting a punching bag.

Dave

[YodasLuke]

Aren't the hands actually moving slower than the clubhead though because they are gradually rotating as they move into impact and through to the follow through postion.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the hands travel a much shorter distance than the clubhead from the parallel to the base line on the downswing(Mac's P5) position through follow through.

That being said hand speed would be considerably slower than clubhead speed. Correct???

So well it may be easier to measure clubhead speed, the hitter should work on increasing hand speed.

Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

When hitting, we don't have the luxury that those outcasts in the other emergency room have. Since they don't have the brute force that we hitters have, they have to use a small pulley wheel to accelerate the club (snap release) or have faster hand speed and a larger pulley wheel. A hitter has to resist deceleration. We are driving the entire primary lever system by unloading the secondary lever system.
Even a hitter has some #3, and some #2 which are being simultaneously released, so yes the hands are going slower. But, most poor players have the false feel of clubhead speed and slow the hands to increase the speed of the clubhead. (bent left wrist = shorter primary lever, less mass, faster clubhead but less kinetic energy) The feel of faster hands has to be conveyed if someone's trying to hit or the feeling of pushing the middle (handle/grip) of the primary lever system forward, or hitting will be out of the question.
The snap release in swinging will always be mistaken for wrist bend by the masses.

[YodasLuke]

In the case of hitting isn't the primary hand speed generated by the driving of the right foream and shoulder as hard as you can through the ball using the proper hand positions.Similar to the blow I would use in hitting a punching bag.

Dave

The right triceps drive when hitting. However, the shoulder will move down plane, but it becomes a backstop from which the right arm can jump.

[birdie_man]

So why shouldn't/can't (whichever it is) a Hitter use a Snap Release Ted?

This is interesting.

Does it apply only for Hitting...or just Angled Hinges of any kind? or Single Wrist Action?

We need more Mr. Skywalker!

!



-Paul

[YodasLuke]

So why shouldn't/can't (whichever it is) a Hitter use a Snap Release Ted?

This is interesting.

Does it apply only for Hitting...or just Angled Hinges of any kind? or Single Wrist Action?

We need more Mr. Skywalker!

!



-Paul

Some would say that Homer never wanted to be pinned down about saying what could and could not happen. He wanted to keep the versatility and to keep the book universally applicable. For those reasons, I don't fault him. I think I can speak for myself and Yoda with regard to this topic. Homer did list two distinct patterns: 12-1 and 12-2. Whether you want to call it a method or a system, I could care less. The fact is: THIS STUFF WORKS!!! These patterns do have some interchangeable parts. But, in the component catalogue, you find components that are different for hitting versus swinging. If I assume that Homer was an incredibly gifted man (which I do), I also have to assume that he had his reasons for inclusion and exclusion of components in the two (recommended) patterns.
The pitch stroke for example, which arguably has the worst picture in the book representing the stroke, fits swinging and not hitting. The reason that the elbow is closer to the ball during release is not because you're trying to drive your elbow as deep into impact as possible (it's being taught because of the picture). But, it's because the flying wedges remain in tact and the left palm remains on plane for uncocking and rolling in snap release. If the right forearm flying wedge supports the aft side of the primary lever, the elbow has to be in a more forward position (pitch) when using a snap release. You've prepared from the top (end) for delivery line uncocking, and for delivery line roll. By going to end, you've loaded the pressure on top of the shaft, not on the aft side for hitting. It was the understanding of the interrelationships of the components that opened my eyes to Homer's genius. Is that as clear as mud?

[birdie_man]

I think I get most of it. Had to read a few times but I think I get the jist.

I think I can basically understand why by trying Standard Wrist Action/Pitch vs. Single/Punch (just did a few slow-motion Down Strokes).....and for both, holding the Release off until as late as I can....

It starts to feel uncomfortable much earler with the Single/Punch combo.

-Paul

[tls2351]

[quote=YodasLuke][quote=phillygolf]

The way that I built my pattern was by taking everything that was moving and made it stop. I first took the pivot completely out. I kept my head stationary. I made my left wrist stay flat in a basic motion. And, began with a one accumulator stroke (#1). As far as the changing of components, change one at a time and make it yours. Trying to change multiple components will be anyone's downfall.

Ted, I've recently begun a conversion to hitting myself, after trying the technique with chipping and finding success I never imagined possible (I think hitting may just be a better "fit" for me because good contact seemed to come so much more naturally and with much less effort (physical and mental) than a couple of years of swinging did). I'm looking forward to the journey.

I feel like I'm at the point you describe in your quote above... I've become real comfortable with the short basic motion you describe above and even been able to extend a bit further back to hit low iron shots out of trouble. What are your recommendations for taking the next step in developing my hitting stroke? I'm conscious of the difficulty with (and my temptation to) changing too many components at once and after reading this thought I'd pick your brain regarding what aspects of the hit I should work on after getting a handle on the basic motion (also, the role of the wrist cock in the hitting stroke is not entirely clear to me so). Thanks!

[YodasLuke]

[quote=tls2351][quote=YodasLuke]

What are your recommendations for taking the next step in developing my hitting stroke? I'm conscious of the difficulty with (and my temptation to) changing too many components at once and after reading this thought I'd pick your brain regarding what aspects of the hit I should work on after getting a handle on the basic motion (also, the role of the wrist cock in the hitting stroke is not entirely clear to me so). Thanks!

I'll tell you something that always helps me return to great ball striking. Sometimes I don't play golf or practice for 7 or more days. I have a five month old that takes a lot of time, but I wouldn't trade that time for anything.
The thing that gets me back on track immediately is going to total motion (stopping at top) and taking about five seconds to execute the stroke. It's the epitome of DELIBERATE (3-F-6). Going at that speed, you can monitor everything. Also, it gives you a great feel for release. I try to make the downstroke last as long as possible, but still hit the ball with some force. The shorter you want to hit it, the lighter the club feels. The longer you want to hit it, the heavier it feels. You'll get to where you can hit a total motion, 20 yard floater. Keep making it bigger until you have the distance you want. Over acceleration is the killer.
As far as wrist cock goes, 7-3 says "Bending and Straightening of the Right Elbow will RAISE AND LOWER the Left Arm and/or COCK AND UNCOCK the Left Wrist, without Bending, Flattening, or Cocking the right wrist." The amount of wrist cock that you need will occur if the right arm bends and the right wrist doesn't cock. As a hitter, we have the luxury of simultaneous release, all of which occurs from the proper use of the right elbow. Don't sweat wrist cock.

[12 piece bucket]

Some would say that Homer never wanted to be pinned down about saying what could and could not happen. He wanted to keep the versatility and to keep the book universally applicable. For those reasons, I don't fault him. I think I can speak for myself and Yoda with regard to this topic. Homer did list two distinct patterns: 12-1 and 12-2. Whether you want to call it a method or a system, I could care less. The fact is: THIS STUFF WORKS!!! These patterns do have some interchangeable parts. But, in the component catalogue, you find components that are different for hitting versus swinging. If I assume that Homer was an incredibly gifted man (which I do), I also have to assume that he had his reasons for inclusion and exclusion of components in the two (recommended) patterns.
The pitch stroke for example, which arguably has the worst picture in the book representing the stroke, fits swinging and not hitting. The reason that the elbow is closer to the ball during release is not because you're trying to drive your elbow as deep into impact as possible (it's being taught because of the picture). But, it's because the flying wedges remain in tact and the left palm remains on plane for uncocking and rolling in snap release. If the right forearm flying wedge supports the aft side of the primary lever, the elbow has to be in a more forward position (pitch) when using a snap release. You've prepared from the top (end) for delivery line uncocking, and for delivery line roll. By going to end, you've loaded the pressure on top of the shaft, not on the aft side for hitting. It was the understanding of the interrelationships of the components that opened my eyes to Homer's genius. Is that as clear as mud?

Luke,

In your opinion is the Snap Release the Swinger's exclusive domain? Also, do you think the Snap Release is better suited to Horizontal Hinge Action?

You have posted some SUPADOOPA stuff on lag PRESSURE (I will never separate these words again!). I have been an unsuspecting casualty caught in the friendly fire of "accumulator lag" and "holding angles." I have a tendency to hold-on for dear life with the #2 Accumlator and am also a chicken to let the #3 Accumulator "do it's thang."

Do you have a distinct feel of #3 Swivel after the Angled Hinge Motion is executed?

I'm with you. I don't get how people could say that's a "Golfing Machine Swing" or that it's a method. They must have skipped Chapter 10. It's ALL in there . . . I mean every last bit.

Thanks!

B

[YodasLuke]

Luke,

In your opinion is the Snap Release the Swinger's exclusive domain? Also, do you think the Snap Release is better suited to Horizontal Hinge Action?

You have posted some SUPADOOPA stuff on lag PRESSURE (I will never separate these words again!). I have been an unsuspecting casualty caught in the friendly fire of "accumulator lag" and "holding angles." I have a tendency to hold-on for dear life with the #2 Accumlator and am also a chicken to let the #3 Accumulator "do it's thang."

Do you have a distinct feel of #3 Swivel after the Angled Hinge Motion is executed?

I'm with you. I don't get how people could say that's a "Golfing Machine Swing" or that it's a method. They must have skipped Chapter 10. It's ALL in there . . . I mean every last bit.

Thanks!

B

1st 2 questions:Yes and yes. It's a big deal that the pressure for the swinger is loaded on the top of the shaft and the pressure for the hitter is loaded on the back of the shaft. In swinging the feel of the #3 pressure point is so different than what I feel in hitting. It gets to the same place at impact, but it rotates from top to aft very quickly. I have the feeling of the aft side support all the way from the top. That's why I find it so outrageous when people claim to jump back and forth between hitting and swinging when playing a round of golf. In other words, what they're claiming is that they have the ability to change ten components from swing to swing with no mulligan. And I thought that I had a lot of thinking to do.

The #3 pressure point for me feels like a constant and deliberate rotation from the top. As it slowly turned to the top, it also slowly rolls in the downstroke. The swivel strictly involves the forearm, where the hinge action is the total arm (my words). As far as the swivel, I do have a finish swivel that has it's distinct feel AFTER impact. Holding on for dear life is not the feel of angled hinging, although it's the way I was previously taught. It's the bridge to the finish for hitting and swinging.

Are you presently swinging or hitting?