Here's what a couple of pretty good players think.
Hogan - "THE HIPS INITIATE THE DOWNSWING. Starting them first and moving them correctly -- this one action practically MAKES the downswing. It CREATES early speed."
Nicklaus - "The first move down is the replanting of the left heel, which starts a chain reaction upward through the body--it pulls the left knee toward the target, which pulls the right knee toward the target, which pulls the hips around and in turn the torso, shoulders, arms, hands, and club."
Nicklaus - "I get my power from my legs."
Well I am a big fan of Mr. Hogan. I hear what you say he said. I also have seen videos of his swing and him along with many top pro's seem to slide (move) thier hips back before they complete the TOP of the back stroke. In fact if memory serves me correctly, Ralph Mann found this to be a common trait amongst the 100 plus golfers in Swing Like a Pro.
Now I posted a drill that in fact has the hips move first then the club. Now why do you want this? Clearing so their is a path for the arms/hands.
I use a hip slide to start my down stroke. I just don't believe I hit from my feet up and I believe there is enough examples to prove that it doesn't happent that way. The resistance that lower body meets against the ground certainly support a power swing and maybe this is what you and others are calling power generation. I call it stability and solid foundation to work from.
Your post reminds me of the image of the "Twisting T" - the faster the twist, the faster the Right Shoulder fires down plane. This is how Woods does it(at least in 1996).
You say, "it doesn't happent that way." Indeed for you and your examples that may be true. But, that statement seems to suggest that there is only one way for "it to happen". There are least two different ways - your's and Hogan's.
As I said Hogan's hip movement started before the completion of his back stroke, just like the other pro's.
What I don't beleive is that the power is generated from the feet up. The resistance the feet provide aid the body's motion but it doesn't generate the power.
I would be the last to state that there is only one or two ways to make the golf stroke. I don't believe I can count high enough.
There is a great deal of golf instruction, descriptions, etc, especially by the pro's that make statements of how they beleive they do something, but again that doesn't mean that is really happening. But their preception is their reality.
Your post reminds me of the image of the "Twisting T" - the faster the twist, the faster the Right Shoulder fires down plane. This is how Woods does it(at least in 1996).
The right shoulder went up the inclined plane because the right arm, backswing motion, took it there - this has nothing to do with lower body movement, rotary or otherwise.
The right shoulder travels back down its inclined plane because the right arm requires, nay compels, it to do so - not because the hips have rotated horizontally or in response to any phantom ground generated force.
Consider, === as the hip plane and / as the clubshaft plane and then explain how the horizontal plane, rotary, shifting of the former can initiate the inclined plane downward motion of the latter.
burner,
set up the exercise i described earlier with the club at shoulder height...with the club all the way back, turn just your hips and watch how the shaft moves "downplane" toward the imaginary shoulder level ball...now incline the plane by bending at the waist and then turn your hips back and watch the shaft and your trail shoulder move back "upplane"...the "secret" is that your hips aren't horizontal to the ground during a golf stroke.
Consider, === as the hip plane and / as the clubshaft plane and then explain how the horizontal plane, rotary, shifting of the former can initiate the inclined plane downward motion of the latter.
burner,
set up the exercise i described earlier with the club at shoulder height...with the club all the way back, turn just your hips and watch how the shaft moves "downplane" toward the imaginary shoulder level ball...now incline the plane by bending at the waist and then turn your hips back and watch the shaft and your trail shoulder move back "upplane"...the "secret" is that your hips aren't horizontal to the ground during a golf stroke.
hcw
I referred to the horizontal plane of the hips and inclined plane of the lever assembly only for the sake of simplicity of expression.
In reality, the only parts of the, so called, "hips" that move are where the head of each Femur is located in the socket at the base of the pelvic girdle.
Movement of those parts does not, in itself, cause any movement of the arms per se - it merely alters the structure, by Axis Tilt, of the entire assembly: this being a necessary pre-cursor to, not a cause of, the arms swinging the club down, out and through impact.
"Movement of those parts does not, in itself, cause any movement of the arms per se - it merely alters the structure, by Axis Tilt, of the entire assembly: this being a necessary pre-cursor to, not a cause of, the arms swinging the club down, out and through impact."
The rotating hips CAUSE the Right Shoulder, IF HELD BACK, to move downward.
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