My exact point on Sergio . . . 150 lbs at 120 mph . . . with the club that high up from the ball . .. it don't matter what happens much after it's gone when the club is coming down from angle that steep. He'd have to do something major retarded with his hands or his pivot to flip under it.
True: my original point. Sergio doesn't Flip his hands like the Announcers say he does. It's late Release.
This thread took off. Not even sure what the argument is! Took 3 advil, reread the thread, then got in bed - was feeling a little illin, then started rhyming like a bob o dylan.
I think you may have found the error in my thinking. Please look at post #46 in this thread. I said that Sergios Wrists are Cocked and His Clubface is pointing at the Plane Line, and maybe I’m wrong to say it’s pointing at the Ball. This may be where I'm making a mistake.
My understanding of the Sequenced Release Motion is that the #3 Acc (Hand Motion – Clubface control) is preceded by the #2 Acc (Wrist Motion - Clubhead). In Sergios case, as this Picture illustrates, His Left Wrist looks Flat to me, with a 10-2-D Grip. I guess at the 10-2-D grip because his Clubface is facing the Plane Line when his Left Wrist is Flat. I’m saying that His Clubface is (in dummied down Golf vernacular) square to the Ball. If that’s true, then he won’t need to Swivel into Impact (he only needs the Pivot to Roll the #3). He is using Simultaneous Release (Right hand Paddlewheel). Additionally, I have been trying (but failed) to say that he cannot unCock and Roll on the same Planeline if he tries to Sequence the Release.
Sergio is Swinging only because his is not using Right Arm Thrust. Sergio also Cocks Both Wrists.
If someone can put all of this together, like I have (misguided perhaps), then it becomes clear that Sergio is 10-2-D, Angle Hinging, Controlled Throwaway Swinger, 165 pounds, wins Millions, and gets all the Girls.
Daryl,
Just following up. Love your posts - very educational.
The impact pic (ok barely post impact) still shows flat left wrist and shaft flex - so, not trying trying to be nitpicky, but I see no throwaway, or controlled throwaway (nice term - might apply to Goosen!). The pic just before appears to me to show the face a tad open to the plane line, or square.
But to me, if he were (or is) using simultaneous release - I dont think he would have amount of wristcock he does in this - and it appears he has to swivel into impact from that pic. Dont know. Insane conversation. The pic before impact, his lleft wrist is almost facing the sky - and he is deep with his elbow.
Let me know what you think.
I do see what you are saying about cocking right wrist, but that may be a function of bent right wrist, plus, not sure Homer meant it wouldnt cock a little, just that it wasnt a function of right wrist.
First, Thank you.
Second, let me apologize for being blunt (I only sound like a pompous ass, I not, I'm really friendly, and I sound like I know more than I do. My wife told me it's a "defense mechanism").
Referring to the Sequence Pictures of Sergio Swinging an Iron.
The impact pic (ok barely post impact) still shows flat left wrist and shaft flex - so, not trying to be nitpicky, but I see no throwaway, or controlled throwaway (nice term - might apply to Goosen!). The pic just before appears to me to show the face a tad open to the plane line, or square.
Please allow me to adjust your perspective with the following Quote:
"If thrust is applied only to the Left Arm (Handle), the Clubshaft (Swingle) will perform more like a Rope Handle (rising Clubhead pull), but if prestressed by Clubhead Lag Pressure Point pressure, more like an Axe Handle (steady Clubhead Inertia). However, the Primary Lever Assembly is only somewhat flail like. That is, it is bolted together as with a hinge pin, rather than tied together with a thong, so that it can only be “Cocked” and/or “Rotated” per 4-B and 4-C and cannot pass the “Handle” (4-A-2) while moving toward full extension per 2-P. This insures the Imperative Flat Left Wrist (1-L, 2-0). Study 2-F, 6-F-0 and 10-19. As with the standard flail, the true and proper direction for its mass to move is “downward On Plane” regardless of the incidental appearance of moving “forward On Plane.” Always from the Top. This is indispensable for both Hitters and Swingers for inhibiting Clubhead Throwaway. Study 2-K and Chapter 2-P."
In other words (Daryleze), If the Clubhead passes the hands before Full Extension, then the Clubhead and hands were traveling at different RPM’s. That’s a no-no. That’s Clubhead Throwaway. If your Clubhead is traveling at more RPM than your Hands and your Clubhead is in the process of passing your hands but you struck the ball before the Clubhead has passed your hands, then it’s controlled Clubhead Throwaway. That’s great Hand-eye coordination, and, if you're on the Pro Tour, then you still get all of the Money and free drinks if you post the lowest score that weekend. No strokes are deducted for Controlled Clubhead Throwaway. It’s in the PGA Rules.
The pic just before appears to me to show the face a tad open to the plane line, or square.
Good eyes. Sergio looks like the Classic Swinger in this photo. It’s a nice Picture for new Golf Apparel.
But to me, if he were (or is) using simultaneous release - I don't think he would have amount of wristcock he does in this - and it appears he has to swivel into impact from that pic. Dont know. Insane conversation. The pic before impact, his lleft wrist is almost facing the sky - and he is deep with his elbow.
That’s an interesting inference. Must I name his motion a Sequenced Release if his Pivot is doing all of the Rolling?
We have Horizontal, Angled and Vertical Hinge references. However, we also have every imaginable angle in-between (I just wanted to mention that). At the moment this picture was taken, IF Sergio was Hinging I would say in classic TGM lingo, that Sergio is “Between Hinges” at the moment.
Just because the Clubshaft and Left Arm form a Straight Line for a nano-Second, doesn’t mean that he created a Primary Lever to Hinge through Impact. I do agree that his Clubface is closing through Impact. His Clubface does a great impression of a long Horizontal Hinge (Somewhere between Dead Horizontal and Dead Angled). But can we name it “Horizontal Hinge” or “Angled Hinge” by strict definition, if he has no Hinge?
The question "What is TGM?" is often asked. In the first edition, page 19, 2-G - HINGE MOTIONS, Homer stated: "A truly centered horizontal motion of the Clubface is needed to achieve geometrical precision of Impact". No one in the Golf World can deny this statement but there are many ways to accomplish this goal.
TGM is one Mans search for understanding and teaching to achieve this end. Homer Kelley, and now we, believe and understand that the best way to achieve this end is through the "Hinged Action of an Angular Motion on an Inclined Plane". He wrote a book explaining this so that we mortals can apply these principles and knowledge to our own Swings and once we select component variations we have what's known as our "Pattern".
You must follow the Laws of Physics and Geometry. You don't have to follow TGM. If you don't, you can, and must, forge your swing by beating it out of the ground, as most professional golfers have.
Some professional golfers use Hinging and some don't. For those that Hinge, we have the Homer Kelley "tool box" for analyzing their swings. For those that don't Hinge, we are on our own. HK did not give us the tools to analyze those swings. However, those tools are Catalogued and Referenced in every Golf Magazine, TV Program and Book. To find them, look under the category, "Golf Tips".
Some professional golfers use Hinging and some don't. For those that Hinge, we have the Homer Kelley "tool box" for analyzing their swings.
For those that don't Hinge, we are on our own. HK did not give us the tools to analyze those swings.
D . . . Everything complies with Law . . . just depends on which Laws are present and in what combination . . .
Homer said EVERYTHING is workable basically . . . even Pivot Controlled Hands and intentional Clubhead Throwaway.
Now we have been discussing Sergio and I'll submit to you Fred Couples as well . . . The Flat Left Wrist is somewhat misleading . . . it is a GEOMETRIC alignment and NOT ALWAYS an anatomical (sp?) alignment. So could it be due to the nature of their grip and their dependence upon CF that Couples and Garcia's Flail operate in that SEEMS AS IF it's throwaway?
The Flat Left Wrist is rooted in the Law of the Flail. It is the relationship of the Clubshaft and the Left Arm that Homer was describing . . .the Left Wrist can thus be anatomically Flat and Geometrically Flat . . .OR it can be Anatomically Flat and Geometrically Flat . . . but inorder to satisfy the conditions of the Flail it is ALWAYS ALWAYS Geometrically Flat.
Notice the pictures in 2-K . . . there is a true Flail and a Golfers Flail . . . The true Flail CAN BE VALID in golf. I submit that Couples and Garcia seemingly THROW the club . . .BUT the appearce of their wrist conditions can be deceptive . . . You have to have the proper perspective to see it . . .it is the Left Arm and Shaft that must comply.
I used to have a really good picture of Couples getting the club back up plane his left wrist was benter than bent . . . BUT the club was right up the line of his left forearm.
The grip is essentially just how you attach yourself to the golf club. In order for the club to work the hands have to do certain things based on complying with the Law of the Flail . . . the may not always LOOK right if you focus on the hands and not the club and the arm.
In Orlando I was hitting these low lefties . . . very solid but a bit low. . . Lynn comes over and goes . . .Your Flail has to work like this . . . Left wrist cocks and BENDS to get the club out of it's follow through alignments. The ball instantly went up . . . compression increased . . . and ball go straight.
Don't always judge the book by its cover or the golfer by their wrist alignments.
If I could send you back in time (using Mike O's space ship, of course) with Yoda-like knowledge to help a teen version of Boom-Boom would you change anything? The scary thing about people with the intuition that genius supplies is that they can be even better! I think Jones would have been even better with a level right wrist at top etc. I suppose he did not need it to beat the competition of his day! I understand that their are 10 trillion ways to skin this cat, but the greatest inequality is the equal treatment of unequals (Felix Frankfurter.) Good is good but best is better! Freddie's procedure has been rough on his machine! Still, I love to watch that man take a cut at it!
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