Explanation:(Book) 10-20-C SHOULDER TURN THROWSharp initial acceleration of the Shoulder Turn against the #4 Pressure Point. Loading motion of the Left Arm (10-11) Automatically throws the Left Arm off the chest when the Pivot acceleration subsides per 10-19-C. See 2-M-4.
What to do:
The Right (and Left) Shoulder is Thrown by the Lower Pivot Components. Is that what we're trying to do??
How to do it:
Questions
Can one perform the procedure if one “stops at the Top” before the Initial Start-Down?
Is it an inferior procedure to “stop at the Top” ?
To perform the Procedure correctly, does one need to start the Downswing Lower Pivot Components (Sit Down) before the Backswing is completed?
How do you control the pivot subsiding bit that actually releases acc. 4?
"10-20-C SHOULDER TURN THROW Sharp initial acceleration of the Shoulder Turn against the #4 Pressure Point. Loading motion of the Left Arm (10-11) Automatically throws the Left Arm off the chest when the Pivot acceleration subsides per 10-19-C. See 2-M-4.
"
How do you control the pivot subsiding bit that actually releases acc. 4?
"10-20-C SHOULDER TURN THROW Sharp initial acceleration of the Shoulder Turn against the #4 Pressure Point. Loading motion of the Left Arm (10-11) Automatically throws the Left Arm off the chest when the Pivot acceleration subsides per 10-19-C. See 2-M-4.
"
. . . each segment has momentum transfered hopefully from the ground up to the next segment actuating the #4 pressure point and starting the 4,1,2,3 release sequence. Some instructors talk about pivot braking . . . pivot stops earlier for "drawy" and continues to "push on" for "cutty."
How do you control the pivot subsiding bit that actually releases acc. 4?
"10-20-C SHOULDER TURN THROW Sharp initial acceleration of the Shoulder Turn against the #4 Pressure Point. Loading motion of the Left Arm (10-11) Automatically throws the Left Arm off the chest when the Pivot acceleration subsides per 10-19-C. See 2-M-4.
"
Nothing to control really. The Knees and Hips have only so much motion. And the Hip turn slows as they near the end of their motion. That's the subsiding. It's pretty much automatic.
I'm wondering if the Shoulder Throw is an actual "Whipping" of the Right (and Left) Shoulder during the downstroke.
If we start the Pivot Downstroke Sequence before the Arms reach Top or End of Backstroke, then we can create far greater Lag in the Pivot Train. I was wondering if this is the "How to" develop the motion to Throw the Shoulder??? It seems abrupt to try to Throw the Shoulder from a paused Top of Backstroke.
Also????? Is the Shoulder Throw equally effective with a Straight Line and Circle Path Delivery Path?? Is it more compatable with Circle Path?? Or, is it just a matter of training??
These are all questions I'm going to ask Yoda during my lesson in a few weeks unless I can get a better understanding before.
Also????? Is the Shoulder Throw equally effective with a Straight Line and Circle Path Delivery Path?? Is it more compatable with Circle Path?? Or, is it just a matter of training??
These are all questions I'm going to ask Yoda during my lesson in a few weeks unless I can get a better understanding before.
11-20 say that shoulder turn throw can be combined with wrist throw...but i guess that it does not need to be.
I presume that a shoulder throw can give varying release points...depends on combination with other throws??
I wonder whether you get a circle path/earlier release with pure shoulder throw and no axis tilt....
But if you add a wrist throw and you add more axis tilt...maybe later release...
If you can use shoulder throw in variety of swings with different release points....then you have to have some control over the shoulder release..ie. pivot subsiding... is aiming point a way??
Back on your original point... maybe the earlier in backswing your hips slide /turn to begin downswing...the more you can head towards float loading rather than drag?? Because if you start downswing hip action early and do not increase your lag in transition...you got pretty short swingers "top"??
Envious of your lesson! Good idea to have a think about what is worrying you before you go...but i find best not to conclude too much before lessons...otherwise you can spend most of the lesson "unlearning" what you misconcluded pre-lesson...!!
The book states that the shoulder must be thrown at the start of the downswing. It doesn't state whether the forces throwing the shoulder come from active muscular forces in the upper torso or whether the shoulder turn is more passive in response to movements of the lower torso. That quoted statement also doesn't dictate whether any active shoulder turn (shoulder throw action) is due to rotating the right shoulder actively downplane (pushing action) or whether it is due to pulling the left shoulder forward (pulling action). Did HK discuss these issues and explain why one method is better than another method?
Golfbulldog
Why do you have difficulty understanding why the downswing pivot action subsides? Surely it is due to the nature of human anatomy in the context of the golf swing. The pelvic movement subsides when a golfer increasingly puts more weight on the left leg and turns the left leg into a firm supportive post (firm left side) that resists forward movement of the pelvis and only allows the left hip to clear backwards towards the tush line. The shoulder turn subsides slightly later when the stretched torso muscles rotating the upper torso have shortened to their resting level (muscle length at address).
The book states that the shoulder must be thrown at the start of the downswing. It doesn't state whether the forces throwing the shoulder come from active muscular forces in the upper torso or whether the shoulder turn is more passive in response to movements of the lower torso. That quoted statement also doesn't dictate whether any active shoulder turn (shoulder throw action) is due to rotating the right shoulder actively downplane (pushing action) or whether it is due to pulling the left shoulder forward (pulling action). Did HK discuss these issues and explain why one method is better than another method?
That's not exactly true. Pivot Strokes begin their Downswing with a Hip Turn. Thus, Pivot Lag is maintained during the Downswing Sequences.
My questions are merely to understand the "How To' to what HK said is a Shoulder Throw.
One of my questions concerned 'should the Lower Pivot Components begin their downswing Sequence prior to the Arms completing their Backswing. This increases the Lag in the Pivot Train. Then, the Shoulder could be moved faster which causes a corresponding increase in the #4 Accumulator.
On the other hand, my questions may not be relevant if I've misinterpreted the purpose of the Shoulder Throw procedure. The purpose being to begin the release sequence with a stronger #4 Accumulator.
The book states that the shoulder must be thrown at the start of the downswing. It doesn't state whether the forces throwing the shoulder come from active muscular forces in the upper torso or whether the shoulder turn is more passive in response to movements of the lower torso. That quoted statement also doesn't dictate whether any active shoulder turn (shoulder throw action) is due to rotating the right shoulder actively downplane (pushing action) or whether it is due to pulling the left shoulder forward (pulling action). Did HK discuss these issues and explain why one method is better than another method?
[Bold emphasis by Yoda.]
Per 7-15:
"With Swingers using the Arc of Approach (2-J-3), this actuation may be executed as a 'throwing' of the Right Shoulder by the Hips as in 10-19-C."
Hi Jeff - thanks for your comments...my problem is merely HOW one can manipulate pivot so that, at varying points, one can achieve varying accumulator 4 release points...to what extent are these controllable and by what?
I am not convinced that "controlling" your weight shift is a good way to manipulate varying acc.4 release points...shift "happens"... i think that delivery path of the hands is probably a more refined way... just not sure how one can integtrate, or maybe should /should not integrate, the variety of throws into the two principle options of straight versus circle delivery path?
Most people do not report feeling the pivot subsiding before accumulator releases... but as it is the reason that acc 4 releases...and acc 4 can be released under our control at different places in downswing...we must be able to exert some control...hands contol as per Homer's wishes?...but which other components are modified ...?
Should we aim to be conscious of a slowing of pivot? I was last year and my game improved...I could feel a "blast off" my chest and manipulate my pivot motion through power point 4 sensation...but not very refined...and it was actually more of a "blast down" off my chest...very strong feeling .
Hybrid Mode
