Detonum's stroke sequence

[detonum]

Hello. I've been into TGM since early fall last year. It has done wonders to my game. I have learned alot reading here. But I've hit a brick wall in a couple of parts in my swing..

Here's my sequences.





The problems:
-Arched left wrist. I just can't seem to hit the ball well with a flat left wrist. It seems like my left wrist is so arched at the top, that I have to flip a little bit in the downswing, so that my primary lever radius isn't too short.
-Slight overswivel.

Any help with these problems would be greatly appreciated. Other advice on increasing the precision in my stroke also welcome.
Thanks.

[Toolish]

I am not an A.I. so take this on face value.

Looks like you are using a club with a fair amount of loft yet ball position is pretty much under low point. Hence you have pushed your hands forward at address to give you the shaft lean you need. The problem is that sets your hands and wrists into that arched position that you aren't liking. Push the ball and your hands back a bit at address and the left wrist will flatten out at fix and you have more chance of keeping it that way. I am opnly talking back a bit, don't overdo it.

Doing that will probably also help frame 2 in the DTL view where teh club has come inside a bit too quick and you are off plane.


Overall though it is a nice motion, would love a head as steady as yours! What do you play off? Do you feel you are a hitter or swinger?

[cometgolfer]

Some things that I see that to me (I'm not an AI), indicate a mixing of components:

1) You start from impact fix (a hitters "preference"). As Toolish said, you seem to have over-cooked the forward ball position and, combined with a very forward leaning shaft, is forcing you to put that left wrist in an arched position.

1a) Looks under-plane at startup, but it appears you're trying to carry it back with the clubface still "looking at the ball" as a hitter would. (Looks like not enough "fanning" and not enough right forearm pickup).

2) You go to "Top" (as a hitter "should").

3) Looks like you're empoying a pitch elbow (a swingers preference), rather than the more "at-the-side" punch elbow position of a hitter.

4) Your very "complete" finish position looks more like a swinger than a hitter, so your pivot may be a bit "confused". Are you "spinning the flywheel" (swinger) or "taking up the slack" on the start-down in preparation for using your right shoulder as a backstop (hitter)?

Nice on-plane right forearm at setup and impact.

Bottom line.... I see a mixture of hitting and swinging elements. The arched left wrist is probably a compensation tied to it. The clubface looks very "shut" as a result of the arched wrist. I suspect if you were to sequence your release and use horizontal hinging you'd be taking out everything on the left side of the range.

Do you have a preferred pattern (hitting or swinging)?

CG

[detonum]

Thanks for the replies.

Never thought that's why I'd arch my wrist, Toolish..But it does make sense, so I'm gonna move my ball position back.

I actually play off 10,2 (EGA) at the moment. But thats gonna change pretty soon, I've made some big breakthroughs lately in my impact conditions. Last year I could not hit ANY shot pure. Now after winter practice with TGM I'm getting pretty good compression and pure shots on chips, pitches, full shots.. I'm making way more birdies, and I shot my personal best on the front nine of my course last week (par).

cometgolfer, it does seem like I'm mixing hitting and swinging. What I feel in the downswing, is that I actually pull with my right arm to the pitch elbow position, and then push the club through impact. From what I've read about right arm swinging, it makes the right elbow center of the stroke, and that certainly isn't happening with me. But I definately have alot of right arm participation.

I feel like I take the slack very aggressively while almost simultaneously using my right arm. I don't conciously use my pivot till the finish, so I'm just posing the finish .

If I'm gonna start changing these components to more of a swinging or hitting pattern, I'll choose the hitters pattern. I love the right arm participation.

So here's my question: can a hitter use the pitch elbow?

[cometgolfer]

Thanks for the replies.

If I'm gonna start changing these components to more of a swinging or hitting pattern, I'll choose the hitters pattern. I love the right arm participation.

So here's my question: can a hitter use the pitch elbow?

D,

I guess you could, but it would seem more difficult and less efficient for delivering the right arm thrust that a hitter uses (take a look at 10-3).

The TGM journey is an interesting one. The more you get into it and the more you understand the component inter-relationships, the more clear the book becomes and you start to understand why it's written the way it is. For instance, the elbow position you employ is going to affect your hinge motion and your rhythm which are different for hitting and swinging.

If you're going with a hitters pattern (and I think that's a good choice for you) I'd start with 12-1-0 and stay as close to it as possible.

CG

[Bagger Lance]

From what I see and from what you've said so far, Comet is giving you good advise.

Couple of pointers on Hitting -
For hitting, try a 10-2-D grip. It's a strong grip but perfect for angled hinging because it facilitates the simultaneous uncock/roll very well.

Rather than trace the plane line, you will take a more closed line to the ball and one way to set this up is at address is:

In your address position move your right elbow a little more toward your side rather than in front of your left hip. You are going to use a push basic stroke. Looking down at your right forearm, you will see the path that your hands will take up and back down. Follow that line with your hands for your backstroke and downstroke. You can pre-clear your right hip at address to make room for your hands to move up at startup.

Take a slow startdown and at your release point, straighten your right arm as hard as you want. Use your stationary right shoulder as a backstop when you start pushing. The primary focus for pushing is your #1 pressure point. Use the palm of your right hand to drive the base of your left thumb through impact.

This is the easy stuff, the hard part is keeping your right wrist bent through impact. Don't allow the right wrist to flatten until you are into your follow-through.

There is a lot more in hitting to learn about. The advise on this site in the Hitting section is the best anywhere because Ted and others know how to execute a Hit stroke. I only used it for a year, but got a big whiff of it.

Best wishes on your Hitting journey and enjoy the laser guided rockets you'll be launching.

[Mike O]

Hello. I've been into TGM since early fall last year. It has done wonders to my game. I have learned alot reading here. But I've hit a brick wall in a couple of parts in my swing..

Here's my sequences.





The problems:
-Arched left wrist. I just can't seem to hit the ball well with a flat left wrist. It seems like my left wrist is so arched at the top, that I have to flip a little bit in the downswing, so that my primary lever radius isn't too short.
-Slight overswivel.

Any help with these problems would be greatly appreciated. Other advice on increasing the precision in my stroke also welcome.
Thanks.

Get off the mat and on to some grass (preferably the good stuff that Bucket uses- high quality)- that will allow you to really hit down on it better and have better pivot lag.
Stand a little closer
Get the right shoulder a little more back and down i.e. square up the shoulders at address
Both of those will allow you to take it back more inside and flatter (on plane)
What you try to do and what you do are two entirely different things- in addition the feel of where you've been and the feel of the change to get better will require some "exagerated sensations" on the short term- you need "really inside and really flat".
That will put you in a location where the body will be in the way of the "hands to ball line" at the top. When you make an effort to take your hands to the ball - you'll require the body to move out of the way a lot more.

Now for the areas to look at in the down line sequence.
Look at the hand location on frame 1,2,5,6,7,8 On- Plane? Notice the changes from one frame to another.

Notice the hip rotation or lack thereof in frames 5,6,7,8 on the down the line sequence. Also, on the same face on sequences- there is quite the stopping of the pivot and the releasing of the hands and arms. Probably something you'd see in a 5-10 handicap but not in a pro.

Check out the prolonged "head down- eye on the ball" in frame 11.

With that said- Nice swing! Nice improvement! Keep it up! You're getting there. Pick the things that you want to work on and make sense to you- don't listen to everyone (that includes this post) - don't hand the steering wheel over to anyone- make sure you're the one driving the car!!

[hg]

MO

Are you saying that D's hands are "off plane" and his arms and hands are too far away from his body so he loses the benefit of the power that a continuous body pivot would transmit if the arms and hands travelled closer to his body. I have heard ED Z mention that it is the hands that travel on plane. I assume your suggestions apply to both hitting and swinging.

[Mike O]

I am saying his hands are not moving on plane.

I am also saying that your hands don't move where you try to move them- so it's very likely that he's tried to imagine and feel his hands moving on "his ideal" plane- say turned shoulder- but he is well above it at the top.

I am not "tying" 1) the hands closer to address to 2) any issues of pivot power.

I'm actually thinking that it would be harder to take the hands back flatter with the hands stretched out so far at address (couple of ways to look at that - so I might not have that correct - however as I mentioned - the hands closer to the body at address would allow for a better shoulder alignment and therefore set him up to take it back more on plane i.e. flatter.

All of my comments would apply to swinging or hitting.

However, really a very nice movement- that he's going to continually improve on and get better and better.

[12 piece bucket]

I am saying his hands are not moving on plane.

I am also saying that your hands don't move where you try to move them- so it's very likely that he's tried to imagine and feel his hands moving on "his ideal" plane- say turned shoulder- but he is well above it at the top.

I am not "tying" 1) the hands closer to address to 2) any issues of pivot power.

I'm actually thinking that it would be harder to take the hands back flatter with the hands stretched out so far at address (couple of ways to look at that - so I might not have that correct - however as I mentioned - the hands closer to the body at address would allow for a better shoulder alignment and therefore set him up to take it back more on plane i.e. flatter.

All of my comments would apply to swinging or hitting.

However, really a very nice movement- that he's going to continually improve on and get better and better.

Good post hampster weiner . . . . this cat does have a good motion . . . it would be really good if you just pushed his hands in about 1 foot to a foot and a half. Actually he swings on plane pretty good . . . just a really steep one . . . the hands match up pretty good with the left arm parallel to the ground at start down and the right arm parallel to the ground on the thru side.

You still eatin' booger omlets for breakfast? Where you been . . . groupie at 4-H rallies?