The Tomasello Tapes -- Chapter Five / Power

[SECGolf]

I believe the pivot needs to be trained first before you learn a hand-controlled swing. Tracing the plane line with the hands will not automatically cause the hips to slide. You can trace a plane line with the arms moving from the shoulders only and no pivot.

Tomasello covers the pivot in his first Australian video.

Fog on this one.
Per 5-0 ..."but especially during Start down maintain clubhead lag relationship to plane line (by tracing with hands) - not to the body. That (referring to previous description) - failure to clear the Right Hip (Roundhouse) can initiate almost every alignment disruption" He's saying trace the plane line so as to ensure a clearing to the right hip. If you trace a plane line with the arms moving from the shoulders only and no pivot, you are not going to the top, the right hip is never getting in the way. No need for hip to clear. Like basic motion. If you trace a plane line on a full swing, you have to clear the hips or you can't trace the plane line (back up and in, down, out, forward - shoulders can't do this and not have the hips move).

[6bmike]

Mike,

Above is another pot shot on Tomasello. Do you really believe the videos of Tommy are the complete Tomasello on TGM? NO FRICKIN WAY. At the very least, Tommy had three complete schools to offer students on TGM. Swinging school, Hitting School, and advanced school (applying swinging and hitting to the course). For me, that approach makes the most sense. I believe that's where Tommy's real genius came into play. The vision of a hitting and swinging approach to the game. MAXIMUM TGM with the most efficient and full power stroke patterns in the book. Applying full power and accuracy. As the only Taylor Made slogan use to go...."DON'T HOLD BACK".

DG

The two series of tapes- the Aussie set and the three from Lee, do not speak of 12-1-0 or 12-2-0. Neither talk about Start down with a hip moption then turn. The Blake-Hull video talks about the Start Down at the end of discussion about Acquired Motion.

Tomesallo is trained in the TGM but does not on those tapes deal with 12-1-0 or 12-2-0, so how can I recommend or advise someone to watch something that is not covering the topic. Pot shot- Hardly. Paranoia (yours)- certainly.

TT used many TGM ideas when he developed his pattern. So did Ben Doyle (4 barrel) and others. GREAT. But I can only speak for the two Homer laid out. Inferior, I know, but WTF- I’ll stick with them, okay? So when I talk about TT pattern- which I don’t but if I do and I am wrong- correct me. But if I speak about Homer’s and I am wrong- TT is not the correction about those strokes. When it comes to TT stroke pattern as taught to you on the three days in SC- nobody knows it better, but honestly, a disclaimer about your posts would have saved many aggravation over the years.

[6bmike]

There is no way I can explain Pivot or Lag Pressure any better to anyone. Maybe I missed the crux of it all. All my workshops notes, printed posts from TGM forums, long gone, Homer's book and notes and some audio on my iPod (me- geek) and everything yoda ever posted, all leads me to believe that I'm not too far off center with what I wrote.

Watch Lynn and Jeff at Start Down at the end of Acquired Motion video. What is are to see is the difference between Motion and Action. What may appear as a pivot controlled stroke is anything but.

When I first started to play golf- I could not take a good practice swing. You know, the nice stroke brushing the turf in the same spot before the shot. No control of the club – “unprincipled” as Ben would say. I had a pure Pivot control over my Hands. I could steer the club with the hands to the ball when I had to take my shot. But handsy recovery is not Educated Hands. In fact Educated hands can be quite lazy after they train the ‘mule.’

Thanks Bagger- I'm done. Everyone drive home safe.

[Delaware Golf]

The two series of tapes- the Aussie set and the three from Lee, do not speak of 12-1-0 or 12-2-0. Neither talk about Start down with a hip moption then turn. The Blake-Hull video talks about the Start Down at the end of discussion about Acquired Motion.

Tomesallo is trained in the TGM but does not on those tapes deal with 12-1-0 or 12-2-0, so how can I recommend or advise someone to watch something that is not covering the topic. Pot shot- Hardly. Paranoia (yours)- certainly.

TT used many TGM ideas when he developed his pattern. So did Ben Doyle (4 barrel) and others. GREAT. But I can only speak for the two Homer laid out. Inferior, I know, but WTF- I’ll stick with them, okay? So when I talk about TT pattern- which I don’t but if I do and I am wrong- correct me. But if I speak about Homer’s and I am wrong- TT is not the correction about those strokes. When it comes to TT stroke pattern as taught to you on the three days in SC- nobody knows it better, but honestly, a disclaimer about your posts would have saved many aggravation over the years.

Tom Tomasello taught 12-1-0 and 12-2-0 (period)...I would love to have you say what you just said to Tom Tomasello in person, I know you wouldn't have the GUTS. What an opportunist!!! Another sad day for TGM.


DG

[Delaware Golf]

The two series of tapes- the Aussie set and the three from Lee, do not speak of 12-1-0 or 12-2-0. Neither talk about Start down with a hip moption then turn. The Blake-Hull video talks about the Start Down at the end of discussion about Acquired Motion.

Tomesallo is trained in the TGM but does not on those tapes deal with 12-1-0 or 12-2-0, so how can I recommend or advise someone to watch something that is not covering the topic. Pot shot- Hardly. Paranoia (yours)- certainly.

TT used many TGM ideas when he developed his pattern. So did Ben Doyle (4 barrel) and others. GREAT. But I can only speak for the two Homer laid out. Inferior, I know, but WTF- I’ll stick with them, okay? So when I talk about TT pattern- which I don’t but if I do and I am wrong- correct me. But if I speak about Homer’s and I am wrong- TT is not the correction about those strokes. When it comes to TT stroke pattern as taught to you on the three days in SC- nobody knows it better, but honestly, a disclaimer about your posts would have saved many aggravation over the years.

Tom Tomasello taught 12-1-0 and 12-2-0 (period).....Please provide us with all 24 stroke components for both of Tommy's swinging and hitting motion if he didn't teach 12-1-0 and 12-2-0. I believe that would provide the forum with much DEBATE!!!

And what was it exactly that has caused so much grief??? Mike, you seem to be the only one having a problem with TT.

It's amazing you wouldn't know it by the number of PM's that I get, that anyone is having a problem.

DG

[Delaware Golf]

If what Tomasello taught is such a problem. How do explain the last comment in the Tomasello Golf Illustrated interview....after Tommy just got through explaining the exact Magic of the Right Forearm approach that he taught me for swinging (with delayed hip action no less)....

GI: How long before a student makes significant improvement?

Tomasello: I can give documented examples of golfers with no previous record of success who started winning tournaments at various levels almost immediately. But the learning is never-ending. The amount of time and dedication the golfer puts in determines how far he or she can go.

DG

[Bagger Lance]

GI: How long before a student makes significant improvement?

Tomasello: I can give documented examples of golfers with no previous record of success who started winning tournaments at various levels almost immediately. But the learning is never-ending. The amount of time and dedication the golfer puts in determines how far he or she can go.

DG

And there you have it!

Good stuff guys and good thread.

DG or anyone else with hands on experience with Tom, my offer will stand if you would ever like to share more Tomasello material.

Thanks,

[SECGolf]

If you're not sold on the uncocking of the right forearm from the top.....do you really understand longitudinal acceleration.

What is the dictionary definition of longitudinal that best describes its application to the golf swing?

DG

DG: Your call to action has not gone unnoticed. I'll get around to it, but right now, my TGM brain is worn out trying to give my opinion that there is not some wide chasm between the thoughts of Tomasello, Blake, and Evershed on the hand controlled pivot.

[6bmike]

DG: Your call to action has not gone unnoticed. I'll get around to it, but right now, my TGM brain is worn out trying to give my opinion that there is not some wide chasm between the thoughts of Tomasello, Blake, and Evershed on the hand controlled pivot.

It is not about Tomasello, Blake, or Evershed. It is about Homer Kelley and The Golfing Machine. Of the three, Lynn Blake and The Golfing Machine is not only as close to Homer Kelley but is Homer Kelley's The Golfing Machine.

[SECGolf]

It is not about Tomasello, Blake, or Evershed. It is about Homer Kelley and The Golfing Machine. Of the three, Lynn Blake and The Golfing Machine is not only as close to Homer Kelley but is Homer Kelley's The Golfing Machine.

????????

I'm sorry, but my post specifically mentioned my opinion on others' thoughts related to the idea of the hand controlled pivot. In my opinion, your declaration in not needed (at least don't include my post in your declaration).
How do you know that I, too , don't believe Lynn's teachings are The Golfing Machine? (including my post in your declaration sure makes a suggestion). All I can say, kindly, is at least be open to the fact that you, yourself, might need to check your understanding of some items in The Golfing Machine. (like 1st paragraph chapter 4 - all over importance of clubhead feel.) In other words, your understanding, as of now, might be a little different (even a little less correct) than that of the professionals on this site. If you don't want to read the above, please don't put my posts in your declarations. Thanks.