The Tomasello Tapes -- Chapter Five / Power

[6bmike]

Can a hitter play, too?

Only with a 5 iron, sand wedge and a putter.

oh and return 6 cans of beer- empty.

[Yoda]

If those arguing about what starts the downswing could agree on what ends the backswing, then I think I could enter into the fray. It would also help if those arguing about when the downswing starts would agree as to when the backswing ends.

Love ya, Coop. Keep'em comin!

[Delaware Golf]

If those arguing about what starts the downswing could agree on what ends the backswing, then I think I could enter into the fray. It would also help if those arguing about when the downswing starts would agree as to when the backswing ends.

Feel the load on the feet when starting down with the right forearm per the last paragraph on 7-17.

DG

[SECGolf]

Nice one Mike.I didn't have time to get into detail earlier but you summed it up in your own inimitable way -LAG is LAG ...Weight is - Weight

Here is where my fog is: (not saying I'm right,etc but better than saying "I think" or "in my opinion" every sentence).

From dictionary.com:
weight: Physics. the force that gravitation exerts upon a body, equal to the mass of the body times the local acceleration of gravity.

So in physics weight is force, or pressure that can be sensed.

Kelley does describe club head lag pressure as a careful nursing of clubhead feel. The main thing that comes from lag pressure is the ability to feel the club head. I'm not sure how to reconcile club head lag pressure (strict definition) with the force that gravitation exerts upon the clubhead (at top).
Regardless, both "situations" produce force which the hands most certainly can feel. The hands now have club head feel. Then they do what is needed not to lose the sensed pressure (clubhead lag pressure is "always loading" - feel the wet mop head through impact). Including telling the body to make the necessary movements not to lose club head feel.

[6bmike]

Here is where my fog is: (not saying I'm right,etc but better than saying "I think" or "in my opinion" every sentence).

From dictionary.com:
weight: Physics. the force that gravitation exerts upon a body, equal to the mass of the body times the local acceleration of gravity.

So in physics weight is force, or pressure that can be sensed.

Kelley does describe club head lag pressure as a careful nursing of clubhead feel. The main thing that comes from lag pressure is the ability to feel the club head. I'm not sure how to reconcile club head lag pressure (strict definition) with the force that gravitation exerts upon the clubhead (at top).
Regardless, both "situations" produce force which the hands most certainly can feel. The hands now have club head feel. Then they do what is needed not to lose the sensed pressure (clubhead lag pressure is "always loading" - feel the wet mop head through impact). Including telling the body to make the necessary movements not to lose club head feel.

No- this is not a "swing the clubhead- feel the clubhead golf swing." You do not hit the ball with the clubhead- you hit the ball with your Hands- the pressure points in your Hands. Clubhead LAG Pressure is in the hands. Clubhead lag Pressure is not in the clubhead, either. And no- its weight unless change resistant- is neither Lag or Lag pressure.

I have tried to explain TGM concepts that are Hands Controlled Pivot but you only want the Swing the Clubhead/dance with the club type of stroke. The pivot works as trained- independently, intuitively, instinctively, and automatically. Trained, trusted and ignored by the Hands.

If you watch this video clip:

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery.../509/LBJH3.wmv

If you watch the last third of the clip, you will see Lynn Blake demonstrated the Start Down Waggle as he explains the start down sequence- Hip slide- Instant Acceleration and no self moving Hands (at that point of the stroke). You will see how the pivot sets the hands On Plane- not off, how the hip turn, sets up the right shoulder and right arm On Plane- not off.
But you will see pivot control hands because you want a Hands that Slave a Pivot. Nagging Hands. You feel better with a Hands in motion and let the body turn when needed.

This is how a 12-1-0 or 12-2-0 Golfing Machine G.O.L.F. Stroke works with well Educated Hands controlling the stroke and pivot.

Good luck.

[neil]

If those arguing about what starts the downswing could agree on what ends the backswing, then I think I could enter into the fray. It would also help if those arguing about when the downswing starts would agree as to when the backswing ends.

I didn't realise we were arguing about what starts the downswing.
I was talking about the difference between the weight of the club (motionless) at the top ,and lag pressure.

[Delaware Golf]

Speaking in absolutes and recommending videos.....interesting.

[SECGolf]

No- this is not a "swing the clubhead- feel the clubhead golf swing." You do not hit the ball with the clubhead- you hit the ball with your Hands- the pressure points in your Hands. Clubhead LAG Pressure is in the hands. Clubhead lag Pressure is not in the clubhead, either. And no- its weight unless change resistant- is neither Lag or Lag pressure.



Good luck.

10-19-C (first sentence) "Lag Loading (Clubhead Feel)." I totally agree you hit the ball with the hands. Club head feel is what enables you to to so, because in reality, the club head is what strikes the ball. There has to be a connection with the hands and the clubhead. "its weight unless change resistant" I don't understand this. Just thinking - I believe all weight (force) is change risistant. If this is not a feel the club head swing - how do you direct the clubhead with the hands? Your hands must sense something to direct.

The pressure in your hands is a direct result of what is happening with the clubhead when you make certain movements (drive your hands or make movements that stop the driving of your hands). In other words, the driving of your hands causes the RESULTING ACTION of the club head to transmit pressure that is sensed in the hands. Club head lag pressure is not sensing the driving of your hands (and the hands are driven by accum), but sensing the clubhead via your hands.

6-C-2 CLUBHEAD LAG

"It can be any one or any combination of pressure points selected to Sense CLUBHEAD Acceleration rate and direction" Use Clubhead lag to feel the clubhead.

Also I think there is something to the fact that the glossery does not state, in its definition of Clubhead lag, "resistance of inertia to change in direction", but rather just and only "resistance of inertia to change" (direction and acceleration).

6-C-2-0 Picture Club head at top of swing. per caption "Clubhead lag" (established)

I don't think an independent pivot is 12-1 or 12-2. I believe the hands by sensed pressure, dictate to the pivot (5-0). Thae hands are, by far, are the most reliable parts of the body, when it comes to maintaining a precise hand relationship to the plane line.

As you pretty much stated, no changing each other. Thanks for the replies. If you haven't changed my thinking, it has given me reason to go back to the book in detail - always good.

[SECGolf]

No- this is not a "swing the clubhead- feel the clubhead golf swing."

That's the beauty of The Golfing Machine - Kelley tells us exactly how to feel the clubhead (through the Clubhead Lag Pressure Point) which is associated with "all over control" 7-19.

I don't think Kelley was at odds with greats like Ernest Jones and Percy Boomer.

[6bmike]

That's the beauty of The Golfing Machine - Kelley tells us exactly how to feel the clubhead (through the Clubhead Lag Pressure Point) which is associated with "all over control" 7-19.

I don't think Kelley was at odds with greats like Ernest Jones and Percy Boomer.

No he wasn't. Certainly not Boomer.

DG- not absolutes, just trying to explain TGM 12-1-0 and 12-2-0. Yoda and Hull do a great job. You cannot find this information of Tomesello's video. He doesn't pull. Even a Hitter was a strong 'twitch' pull to set up the hands.


Im done trying to explain the differeence between weight and Lag. Swing the clubhead, SEC

And if you watch that video- you will not believe what you see. Your Hands are not as educated as you think if they need to micro manage a pivot. A correct take-away requires a turn. A down stroke requires a turn. And the Hands do NOT move themsleves at the very start- if they do they are way to active and might nopt find On PLANE by themselves. If they don't move themselves- what does?