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all types of lag

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  #1  
Old 12-15-2009, 11:31 PM
slicer mcgolf slicer mcgolf is offline
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all types of lag
Accumulator lag, pivot lag, shaft lag, lag pressure...

What are the differences and how can you identify them in pictures or video?
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:43 AM
O.B.Left O.B.Left is offline
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There is more than that even, check out 6-M-1 The Downstroke Sequence. Feet, Knees, Hips, Shoulders......................each component Lagging and Dragging.

Lag in all its forms. Like Hogan said its a "chain reaction" or did he say "chain action"? You can see them on video for sure, but feeling them is what its all about for the player especially at the #3 pp in the first joint of the right forefinger and/or knuckle. If there is a hierarchy of Lag that is the King Lag. After thats gone, if you havent hit the ball yet, only bad things happen. Your hands are in Homers words "chasing the club". I can feel that. How a 15 handicap, retired guy figured it all out Ill never understand.

Last edited by O.B.Left : 12-16-2009 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:13 PM
slicer mcgolf slicer mcgolf is offline
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The kinetic chain would simply be a lagging of sorts, so I see your point that it involves many components from the ground up.

For accumulator lag, to be specific... what is this and how can we see it?
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:44 PM
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Slicer,

I don't think I'm going to nail this, but perhaps move us in the proper direction?

In my opinion, what OB described is pivot lag, or the kinematic sequence which is what 6-M-1 means to me.

Accumulator lag is angles. A visual would be the angle between left wrist and shaft created when employing the #2 accumulator. You can see Accumulator lag. I think many confuse accumulator lag with a late or "snap" release.

Clubhead lag is pressure. #3 Pressure point would be a great thing to monitor for clubhead lag, that's why the PBS is so popular. You can't see clubhead lag. One of my favorite quotes from YODA came from Alignment Golf:

THE SECRET OF GOLF IS NOT A POSITION IT’S A PRESSURE!

My thoughts, if incorrect I'm looking forward to learning the proper definitions.

Kevin
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:50 PM
slicer mcgolf slicer mcgolf is offline
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Thanks Kev,

Can we have too much accumulator lag?

I think this may have an effect on holding body positions (or centers). For players that I have seen with a very acute #2 angle, the head seems to dip down and back through impact... almost to back out of it to release the angles.
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:01 PM
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I think you can have too much Slicer. I'm not sure you can have too much #2, but you can sure start releasing it too late and maintain it too long.

One example that comes to mind would be #1. You don't want to take that past 90° or you lose the ability to employ extensor action. That may be a separate issue?

Kevin
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:15 PM
O.B.Left O.B.Left is offline
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Originally Posted by slicer mcgolf View Post
Thanks Kev,

Can we have too much accumulator lag?

I think this may have an effect on holding body positions (or centers). For players that I have seen with a very acute #2 angle, the head seems to dip down and back through impact... almost to back out of it to release the angles.


In regard to this tendency, Slice, you could look at it as being a subconscious move of the left shoulder (low point) backwards giving them more time to square it up, release. As if they need more time in the "degrees per second" equation of 6-N-0.

The other ways to increase the time would be to change the Release Point, slow down the hand speed or move the ball forward if its a driver. Or simply decrease the degrees, #2 Angle.

Interesting question. Wish I had that problem.

There can be a similar sort of tendency where guys back out of a driver to achieve a higher launch angle. They move their low point back, dynamically during the swing. For those guys if they want to stay centered, the solution is to move the ball forward in the stance.

Homer wanted a centered pivot of course but he also included the proviso "except for special purposes". I think he's talking launch angle and power maybe. Lynn would know. He did tell me once that the driver can (at times) be considered a specialty club, in that you're trying to get it as far down there as you can, with an accepted loss in accuracy. But this is for another thread maybe. You certainly wouldnt want to back out of an iron shot from the fairway with all the money on the line.

Last edited by O.B.Left : 12-18-2009 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 12-17-2009, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by KevCarter View Post
One of my favorite quotes from YODA came from Alignment Golf:

THE SECRET OF GOLF IS NOT A POSITION IT’S A PRESSURE!
Thanks, Kev.

I kinda liked that one myself!

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