I started the thread the "Tomasello Argument" and I will end with the Tomasello Argument on Tommy's behalf.
During my three day school, I asked Tommy where in the book does it say start the club down with the Right Forearm. Tomasello's response....7-3, THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM. Hitting or Swinging. "The Right Forearm has complete control".
The upward and downward force is provided by a straight-up folding and un-folding of the right forearm from it's address position. You simply fold your right arm at the elbow to swing the club up. From there, you try to throw the clubhead into the ground by unfolding your right arm. Tom Tomasello Golf Illustrated July 1991.
(TGM 7-3. Bending and Straightening the Right Elbow will RAISE AND LOWER the Left Arm and/or COCK AND UNCOCK the Left Wrist without Bending, Flattening or Cocking the Right Wrist.)
(TGM 7-3...it is absolutely MANDATORY that, Hitting or Swinging, it is the Right Forearm---not just the Right Hand and/or Clubshaft--that must be thrown, or driven, into impact per 7-2-3.)
"All that Stuff about leading the downswing with a lateral move of the lower body, driving the hips and legs towards the target to retain power---it's all terribly wrong! It seems to be what's happening, but it's not really what happens in the most efficient, centifugal-force golf swing." Tom Tomasello Golf Illustrated July 1991. GI: What happens to the shots of the player who executes these moves
Tomasello:The player will immediately hit the ball higher and straighter, and substantially longer. The flight pattern will be dead straight to its apex, with the ball falling a touch left or drawing fractionally as it decends.
GI: How long before a student makes significant improvement?
Tomasello: I can give you documented examples of golfers with no previous record of success who started winning tournaments at various levels immediately. But the learning is never-ending. The amount of time and dedication the golfer puts in determines how far he or she can go. Golf Illustrated July 1991
"Good Golf is Power Golf." Homer Kelley.
Done.....
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 04-14-2007 at 04:39 AM.
In regard to your last paragraph. I am not sure Biomechanic Analysis supports your position. That said some studies have indicated the lateral shift occurs prior to the completion of the backstroke.
I guess the question I have is when does the latteral shift occur since this sometimes occur prior to the completion of the back stroke (change in direction) while others seem to do it prior to the downstroke but when it appears the back stroke is completed. Then there are all those others who are still doing it at some undefined time during the down stroke but not consistent (hackers, golfers developing a stroke, etc.).
Thank you for sharing your knowledge...I have enjoyed all of it...the posts...the articles...the video clip...shipped at no cost...never say never so maybe down the road we will see your contributions to the Forum again..until then take care, good luck on your tests and hit them long and straight.
HG
PS
It would be interesting to have you swing with one of those iClub jackets and see what parts are moving when....
Tomasello's pattern is not the "end-all-be-all" of golf stroke patterns. It takes a lot of work beyond watching videos and reading old articles to make this or any pattern work. My biggest problem with making this pattern work in the real world is understand how the pivot works. I think that 90% of the golf stroke is the pivot, and Tomasello totally washes over it, but insteads preaches this hands controlled pivot fallacy. What he says and does are completely opposite. Learn how to pivot first and then add you right arm. That is how golf is played and it doesnt matter if you are a hitter, swinger, or switter. The hands cannot logically ever control the pivot; the pivot cannot logically control the hands. It takes both. It is the pivot stupid
That is how I learned how to use my right arm in the golf swing, it is how most good players control the swing. Everything else is jsut theory and marketing.
Add a correct pivot and you now have a maximum participation stroke.
"Have at it." I have and the ball sails 290 + down the fairway with a draw.
Tomasello's pattern is not the "end-all-be-all" of golf stroke patterns. It takes a lot of work beyond watching videos and reading old articles to make this or any pattern work. My biggest problem with making this pattern work in the real world is understand how the pivot works. I think that 90% of the golf stroke is the pivot, and Tomasello totally washes over it, but insteads preaches this hands controlled pivot fallacy. What he says and does are completely opposite. Learn how to pivot first and then add you right arm. That is how golf is played and it doesnt matter if you are a hitter, swinger, or switter. The hands cannot logically ever control the pivot; the pivot cannot logically control the hands. It takes both. It is the pivot stupid
That is how I learned how to use my right arm in the golf swing, it is how most good players control the swing. Everything else is jsut theory and marketing.
Add a correct pivot and you now have a maximum participation stroke.
"Have at it." I have and the ball sails 290 + down the fairway with a draw.
The above comments are a deviation from TGM...see 12-13-0.
IN TGM the ARMS LANE IS THE POWER LANE NOT THE PIVOT...Hips do not provide power they only maintain velocity.
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 03-04-2007 at 05:42 PM.
Tomasello's pattern is not the "end-all-be-all" of golf stroke patterns. It takes a lot of work beyond watching videos and reading old articles to make this or any pattern work. My biggest problem with making this pattern work in the real world is understand how the pivot works. I think that 90% of the golf stroke is the pivot, and Tomasello totally washes over it, but insteads preaches this hands controlled pivot fallacy. What he says and does are completely opposite. Learn how to pivot first and then add you right arm. That is how golf is played and it doesnt matter if you are a hitter, swinger, or switter. The hands cannot logically ever control the pivot; the pivot cannot logically control the hands. It takes both. It is the pivot stupid
That is how I learned how to use my right arm in the golf swing, it is how most good players control the swing. Everything else is jsut theory and marketing.
Add a correct pivot and you now have a maximum participation stroke.
"Have at it." I have and the ball sails 290 + down the fairway with a draw.
Of course the pivot is important. A hands controlled pivot is NOT what you think it is. You have the wrong idea of the term- “Hands controlled pivot.” It is NOT an arm swing.
The pivot moves the hands. The pivot does the “work.” What the pivot does NOT do is control the, or think for, the golf stroke. The pivot is designed by the hands to delivery the club to the ball.
Although Zones 2 and 3 (arms and hands) supply the power to the ball. Zone 1 (body- the pivot) generates POWER. The pivot provides Throw OUT power like a rotor. Max out all the Pivot Lag you want and power it up.
The pivot components are 7-12 through 17:
Pivot
Shoulder TURN
Hip TURN
Hip Action
Knee Action
Foot Action
None of which hold the club but generate Lag and Throw –Out.
So when you hear the term Hands Controlled Pivot you know that it isn’t an arm swing but a well designed body motion that generates power (what ever amount is appropriate for the shot) to the arms and hands. Once the hands are educated and have designed this power pad- let it work for you.
Of course the pivot is important. A hands controlled pivot is NOT what you think it is. You have the wrong idea of the term- “Hands controlled pivot.” It is NOT an arm swing.
The pivot moves the hands. The pivot does the “work.” What the pivot does NOT do is control the, or think for, the golf stroke. The pivot is designed by the hands to delivery the club to the ball.
Although Zones 2 and 3 (arms and hands) supply the power to the ball. Zone 1 (body- the pivot) generates POWER. The pivot provides Throw OUT power like a rotor. Max out all the Pivot Lag you want and power it up.
The pivot components are 7-12 through 17:
Pivot
Shoulder TURN
Hip TURN
Hip Action
Knee Action
Foot Action
None of which hold the club but generate Lag and Throw –Out.
So when you hear the term Hands Controlled Pivot you know that it isn’t an arm swing but a well designed body motion that generates power (what ever amount is appropriate for the shot) to the arms and hands. Once the hands are educated and have designed this power pad- let it work for you.
I think that the above is why it is very important to train the pivot. Do so properly, and it allows you to monitor the pressure points, and use the hands effectively. If the pivot is faulty, you'll have to make compensations. You're hands have to be that much better, just to hit passable shots.
Of course the pivot is important. A hands controlled pivot is NOT what you think it is. You have the wrong idea of the term- “Hands controlled pivot.” It is NOT an arm swing.
The pivot moves the hands. The pivot does the “work.” What the pivot does NOT do is control the, or think for, the golf stroke. The pivot is designed by the hands to delivery the club to the ball.
Although Zones 2 and 3 (arms and hands) supply the power to the ball. Zone 1 (body- the pivot) generates POWER. The pivot provides Throw OUT power like a rotor. Max out all the Pivot Lag you want and power it up.
The pivot components are 7-12 through 17:
Pivot
Shoulder TURN
Hip TURN
Hip Action
Knee Action
Foot Action
None of which hold the club but generate Lag and Throw –Out.
So when you hear the term Hands Controlled Pivot you know that it isn’t an arm swing but a well designed body motion that generates power (what ever amount is appropriate for the shot) to the arms and hands. Once the hands are educated and have designed this power pad- let it work for you.
The legs pushing into the ground and the ground pushing equal energy back generate the inital forces that make golf swings possible. The body's ability to muscularly harness and redirect that energy makes good golf swings possible.The muscles that rotate the torso certainly help to harness and redirect this energy to the powerful muscles that move our arms, hands, and golf club.
The legs pushing into the ground and the ground pushing equal energy back generate the inital forces that make golf swings possible. The body's ability to muscularly harness and redirect that energy makes good golf swings possible.The muscles that rotate the torso certainly help to harness and redirect this energy to the powerful muscles that move our arms, hands, and golf club.
Thanks, Coop...Good stuff. I like it, and Percy Boomer, author of On Learning Golf (1946), would have liked it, too.
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