Just my humble opinion, but I've tried Right Arm Swinging and the best I can describe it is, 1, 2, 3 with loosened wrists per 10-K-3 and longitudinal right arm pull. The pivot is in motion but not "active". I've given right arm swinging a college try (That would be a Masters level try for you DG ) on and off the course. I like it and it's effective, but not my style. When you are a natural hitter it's tempting to use right arm swinging. A pure longitudinal pull with the right forearm to the aiming point.
Speaking for myself, its hard to have any focus on keeping the right forearm wedge intact like you would with a normal pivot driven swing, so let CF line things up with the right forearm wedge through impact. This is due to the "loosened wrists". Normally the right wrist stays fixed in it's bent and level condition without cocking or uncocking. In a right arm swing, the loosened right wrist tends to cock and uncock on the downswing as the right elbow uncocks per the procedure. It's purely a function of centrifigal force acting on the "loosened" right wrist, unless you want to use a non-automatic release of the #2 accumulator. In my case this results in a borderline random sweep/full sweep release but also prevents any elbow strain for some reason.
Longitudinal swinging with the right arm is a valid option if done correctly. I resist endorsing it due to the "potential" for injury, just like I would resist endorsing any pivot move that would injure the back or hips. (Note DG - Endorsing pertains to my duty as site admin, and any liability associated with it's content.) For those new to the site, DG is our unofficial right arm swing evangelist and we appreciate his expertise in that area.
The only time I've experienced right elbow twing is when the right elbow is out of position for the motion. I've had right elbow soreness for several weeks, multiple times over the course of two years. I may be wrong, but if my elbow is in a pitch basic position and I attempt to push, it will stress the ligaments. I think an OTT move with push basic may have the same results. I'm certain its' because I'm not doing it correctly at times.
I would really like to explore the right and wrong way to do right arm swinging without injury. I think its based on having the proper right elbow position at release. It would be a great groundbreaking study to know and would supplement Toms work.
I've rambled enough and probably taken this thread off topic.
I'll leave it up to Bucket if this thread is beginning to get off topic or not.
Bucket - You da man, let us know. We can take this right arm, longitudinal swing somewhere else and do some more digging.
I just had a Lesson with Ben Doyle. More on that later. I was "left Arm Swinging" and Driving the Ball about 255 Yards. Another guy was Swinging and Driving the Ball 300 Yards. I asked Ben "What's going on?". He said the other guy was "Right Arm Swinging". We put him on video and sure enough Ben said, "See, he gets all that power from his right arm". I asked "is he still swinging then?" and Ben said "Ya, a right arm swinger". Enough for me.
Hi there not trying to criticise any of your thought on right arm swinging. I don't know enough about the subject. I would like to try and incorporate it into my swing but my only concern is that adding 1# to my swinging proceedure of 2# follwed by 3# 4# would this not cause premature uncocking of the left wirist leading to a bent left wrist through impact. I am sure you will have a logical answer and be able to allay my fears in respect of this happening.
Calling UPS -- I Have a Right Forearm FW to Deliver.
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
"With this "inline" relationship of loading and Right Forearm, it is absolutely MANDATORY that, Hitting or Swinging, it is the Right Forearm--not just the Right Hand and/or Clubshaft--that must be thrown, or driven, into impact per 7-2-3."
Let's forget the right arm swing, lets take it up another notch...DG swings the club according to TGM. Through the magic of the right forearm. A right arm approach to the game. At the highest level, it's the most efficient way to play the game. And after practicing and developing that approach, it totally makes sense.
DG
DG,
Excellent post, Dave and a great quote. I apprecitate your posting it. I like the mental image of the right forearm flying wedge being thrown (swinging) or driven (hitting) into impact. Are you you simply advocating delivery of the whole right forearm flying wedge into impact, with whatever procedure is used -- as opposed to trying to get everyone to be a "right arm swinger" as per 10-3-K?
For a swinger, the idea and mental picutre that the pivot is driving the right forearm flying wedge from the Top right through Impact and into Follow-through prevents the dreaded "trying to move your hands with your hands" and the right shoulder Over The Top and/or Flipping of the hands that usually result from that.
For both hitting and swinging the right forearm controls the backswing and downswing per 7-3. Please re-read Tomasello's comment...the right forearm is in control.
DG
Control doesn't equate to "work". In a "Hands controlled Pivot", the Pivot is doing the "work"
Why can't the Pivot be doing the work in a forearm controlled swing?
Your right it does at release it supplies the outward force from the shoulder turn per 2-N-1 (as Tommy said it closes the door) but what started the downswing is the uncocking action of the right forearm not the lower body (See the end of 7-3). Also, reference the Lee Dietrick video, I believe it's the number #2 video. The right forearm supplies the up and down force to the swing....shoulder turn supplies the inward action on the backswing and outward force on the downswing...that's why you hear Mark Evershed talk about hitting down with the right arm on the downswing.
I'm trying to reconcile it all...Tomasello to Mark Evershed to Homer and TGM.
DG
Yes, TT demonstrates the Right Forearm Pickup and then just appears to reverse that action for the downswing from about 2:20 - 3:25.
The right forearm pickup is nothing more than bending the right arm; and the reverse procedure is nothing more than straigtening the right arm. Now, the right arm can unbend one of two ways -- passively, through the throw-out action of a swinging procedure or actively through use of the muscles. I contend this can only be done by the tricep muscle, as the right forearm has no musculature that can actively cause the right arm to straighten.
So when you say that the right forearm is in control, you appear to be saying that the right forearm is causing, activley powering both the pick up and straigtening of the right arm, and I don't think that is anatomically correct. I believe that is done by the bicep and tricep.
Yes, TT demonstrates the Right Forearm Pickup and then just appears to reverse that action for the downswing from about 2:20 - 3:25.
The right forearm pickup is nothing more than bending the right arm; and the reverse procedure is nothing more than straigtening the right arm. Now, the right arm can unbend one of two ways -- passively, through the throw-out action of a swinging procedure or actively through use of the muscles. I contend this can only be done by the tricep muscle, as the right forearm has no musculature that can actively cause the right arm to straighten.
So when you say that the right forearm is in control, you appear to be saying that the right forearm is causing, activley powering both the pick up and straigtening of the right arm, and I don't think that is anatomically correct. I believe that is done by the bicep and tricep.
Bob, you have the Evershed book...just read the educated hands section. Tommy is not starting the downswing with the hips...he's driving the right forearm from the top and allowing the right elbow to uncock naturally, he's not holding back at all (it's one smooth driving motion for the top the down comes from the rightforearm, the out comes from the shoulders). I would suggest re-reading the Tomasello golf illustrated interview at this point. At one point in my lesson, Tommy says in so many words, what brought you up brings you down...meaning the right forearm. The Magic of the Right Forearm. I use the right forearm on every shot...when I tried to use direct manipulation of the tricep muscle, in a weeks time, I lost the lag. Went back to using the right forearm and instantly the sweet feeling of lag returned. It was like Magic...hence the name, the Magic of the Right Forearm...I wouldn't be surprised Homer discovered the same thing. I would also say that Homer found it through experimentation versus reading a book on biomechanics!
DG
Last edited by Delaware Golf : 09-17-2006 at 07:52 PM.
I believe it will become more clear as I transcribe more of the Tomasello instruction. Bob, you have the Evershed book...just read the educated hands section. Have you watched the Lee Dietrick video?
DG
Okay - I re-read the Quiet Body and Educated Hands sections of Evershed and I think I got it. It really is more or less the same move you would use to hit the topspin forehand shot with a tennis racquet, except its on an inclined plane. It's the Quiet Body and Educated Hands drills.
Okay - I re-read the Quiet Body and Educated Hands sections of Evershed and I think I got it. It really is more or less the same move you would use to hit the topspin forehand shot with a tennis racquet, except its on an inclined plane. It's the Quiet Body and Educated Hands drills.
P.S. What date is the Golf Illustrated that Tomasello was interviewed in Delaware Golf?
Matt
__________________
"In my experience, if you stay with the essentials you WILL build a repeatable swing undoubtedly. If you can master the Imperatives you have a champion" (Vikram).
The reason you can't sustain the lag is because you are so eager to make the club move fast (a reaction to the intent of "hitting it far"). So on a full shot you throw it away too early, which doesn't happen for your short chip. (bts)
) on and off the course. I like it and it's effective, but not my style. When you are a natural hitter it's tempting to use right arm swinging. A pure longitudinal pull with the right forearm to the aiming point.
Linear Mode
