I was hitting 56 degree sand wedge shots about 80 yards earlier today. I just finished trying Deleware Golf's recommended procedure after reviewing his posts, the Evershed book and Tomasello video. I was was able to hit the same club 90 - 95 yards with better accuracy. A few keys from the Evershed video seemed to help. They are: (1) The left arm is inert; (2) Swing the right arm back, up and in, instantly and simultaneously (i.e., "on-plane", while (3) trying to keep the right arm straight (extensor action); (4) maintain the bent right wrist on the down swing while (5) executing a gentle "top spin forehand" motion and (6) allowing the right arm to swing forward, up and in to the Finish.
Trying this with a stiff left arm instead of an inert left arm is a loser. I also tried to just swing the "whole right arm" instead of thinking only of right tricep power and that seemed to work effectively.
I'm a believer, for I have been to the mountain top.
I've been working on this off/on for the last 4 months and it has finally clicked. I'm hitting the ball pure, long and without effort. All right forearm without any thought on pivoting or my body.
Here's a question:
Is Evershed's pattern different from Tomasello's??? How???
(They just emphasize different things, but the stroke is the same)...Mark just doesn't talk about uncocking the right elbow from the top like Tommy does...the elbow action is a natural move
DG
It seems like when I use Evershed's focal point (the bent right hand)my pattern is different from Tomasello's, but this could be me misunderstanding what he teaches... Is the "vertical drop" simply the uncocking of the right elbow?
When I put "my brain into my right hand" I really do get the feeling of hitting a topspin forehand (switty but still good), and my flight is lower.
When I follow the pattern that Tomasello presents in his video letter/lesson my pattern feels whippish with a higher more darting flight.
I can play good golf with either pattern, but I prefer my -PERCEPTION- of the Tommy T pattern.
I agree that Evershed is a great instructor and he definitely gives his student "knowledge." I understand why he was awarded teacher of the year.
Evershed: N/A porsche 911
Tomasello: Twin Turbo Porsche Carrera
Last edited by ChangeMySwing : 09-19-2006 at 08:55 PM.
I don't agree with you on the Mark Evershed topspin (he is not doing anything different than Tomasello during impact)...what you're calling topspin is impact swivel or what Hogan called supination..
By topspin, I mean that the swing feels similar to a tennis stroke, and not that it is faulty in anyway. It just feels different when I change my focus from my forearm to my right hand. I feel more lag pressure focusing on my right hand, but more speed and 'whippyness' when focusing on the right forearm...
DG,
did you know that Evershed doesn't believe that the left wrist uncocks fully after impact? He believes that it only gets back to level at impact and then quickly recocks.
Originally Posted by Delaware Golf
Your right it does at release it supplies the outward force from the shoulder turn per 2-N-1 (as Tommy said it closes the door) but what started the downswing is the uncocking action of the right forearm not the lower body (See the end of 7-3). Also, reference the Lee Dietrick video, I believe it's the number #2 video. The right forearm supplies the up and down force to the swing....shoulder turn supplies the inward action on the backswing and outward force on the downswing...that's why you hear Mark Evershed talk about hitting down with the right arm on the downswing.
I'm trying to reconcile it all...Tomasello to Mark Evershed to Homer and TGM.
I have experiemented with my normal swing and tomasello's "pattern" the last few times at the range.
Both of the patterns are equally accurate and powerful. Basically all i'm doing is replacing my power from the pivot and replacing it in my right forearm.
My pattern = more pivot, passive right arm/forearm
Tomasello's pattern = less pivot, more right arm/forearm
For me, i like my pattern better.
__________________
I'm not a TGM or PGA certified Pro, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night
You can not mix the patterns at the range in a limited fashion...it takes a committment over a long period of time to the see the real benefits of a pattern...I believe any of you who have been with TGM long enough and have tried to develop the stroke pattern/component approach...in most cases it can take years to develop a pattern and a lifetime of keeping the pattern in check.
...of course humans stick to what their use to....hmmmmm it's only human.
The comment on less pivot and more right forearm....what is that.
It takes time to develop the muscles of the right forearm and arm...the hips don't provide power...they maintain speed.
DG
DG
I don't understand your post. I said that both patterns are equally as accurate and powerful for me. Which means with both of the patterns i was producing the same speed and the same impact alignments. Why would i need a "long committment" to see the benefits when I already have? I have experimented and swung (a little incorrectly) with the Tomasello pattern fora while. Recently through a post of yours i noticed i did something wrong. After this change it allowed me to correctly do the pattern as Tommy would want and then i saw the results which were just as good as my pattern.
If the pattern that i worked on hard for almost a year now works just as good as Tommy's way, why would i change to a whole new pattern instead of just constantly maintaining my own just like i'm sure you do yours?
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My comment on less/more pivt and less/more right arm is in relation to the two distinct patterns.
In the pattern i currently use, i use a very strong pivot motion to carry the power package into impact and i try to create (through pivot thrust as i call it or pivot power, pivot speed whatever anyone wants) as much CF to create throwout action and speed. To do this you have to have very passive and inert arms and "spin the flywheel," meaning the right shoulder downplane.
In Tomasello's pattern the body is much more quiet and the right arm/forearm is much more active. I am simply replacing the amount of 'pivot thrust' (as i call it) with the un-cocking motion of the right arm (magic of the right forearm). When done correctly i get the same type of power and accuracy, i'm simply producing my alignments and "force" or "speed" in a different manner.
Not necessarily better, it's just different and works better for me and i see no reason to change my entire pattern for the same results.
TGM is all about finding the pattern that works for you and i have found that. So i still tinker and wanted to give the Tomasello pattern a significant try to determine the results. It is a valid pattern that works wonderful, i just don't choose to use it because i already have a pattern for me.
__________________
I'm not a TGM or PGA certified Pro, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night
Just watch the Tomasello video on power (full power with any golf club)...using the right forearm approach produces more distance than the traditional left arm swing...that's LAW, inescapable LAW. The second advantage is it's compatability with hitting...very little adjustment between the patterns. It's a right arm approach to the game.
Please, don't humor me and the rest of this site with the story of a couple of trips to the driving range to do a comparison...
The basis for the downswing (and the base for hitting and swinging) in TGM is The MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM per 7-3.
DG
I read and re-read Jim’s post and fail to see what ruffled your features. I don’t know Jim but I think he puts lot into his game and with the help of your posts gave your stroke pattern a fighting chance. Lighten up, his post was civil.
With all the “hmmmmmms...” and “don’t humor mes,” your frustration surfaces. Contribute all you want, continue advising and touting TT, but if someone likes to throw the clubhead a different way at the ball and has success - chill out. We are reading TGM, aren’t we?
6B remember the deal...you're not to reply to any of my posts...you're in violation of imperative numero ooono.
Frustration...actually the opposite, great golf and a beautiful woman in my life...nothin could be finer.
DG
DG- What deal? Get back to earth please and join the human race. You are the last person to tell me to whom and when I can post.
I thought you were WAY OUT OF LINE in the way you treated Jim- something you do to many people on this site. Jim was admirable working on things you posted and you choice to rack him over the coals- nice guy, aren’t you. Huff and Puff as you like but if life is so good for you- you sure don’t show it (save a quick sentence at the end of a post)
The TGM world does not revolve around you or TT or your "swinging" right arm (which I bet is active). Learn to live with the fact that some people built a different machine. And you ain't the designer, dude.
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