Can TGM help me ? First post !

[nuke99]

My take on it is slightly a little different. I feel you got a pretty good swinging and also already doing a little OTT. Evidently your hips did not release ( causes a inward bend plane)and the club is already above the ball on its approach..

Jim Hardy uses a Punch , and Hitting move, thus angled hinging is more natural Your are mixing the physics of golf by swinging using punch elbow ,strong grip , angled hinging thus not being able to fade.

hitting= the assembly pushes the pressure point down the plane . and the pressure point basically stays more behind the club. the arm will have a no roll feel. Total control of the club instead of being controlled by it.

swinging = natural horizontal hinge. The momentum of the club will close the clubface naturally thus we react to the momentum of the club and the pressure points always faces inward and towards ourself. of course when mixing mechanics.. its going to be different.

You got to learn to have to learn the AXE Motion using a more rotary motion. See Ted Fort's hitter motion , understand hitter motion and use them in your "swing" ( More stuart appleby?)

Or you can use your natural swinging motion and use a pitch elbow and a more neutral grip. Open your plane line to play a fade. ( Hogan fights a hook)

both are valid models.

My layman 2 cents worth of tgm + "one plane" swing

[Dariusz J.]

Thanks, Nuke. I wonder how do you know that I am close to Hardy's OP swing theory ?

My take on it is slightly a little different. I feel you got a pretty good swinging and also already doing a little OTT. Evidently your hips did not release ( causes a inward bend plane)and the club is already above the ball on its approach..

Jim Hardy uses a Punch , and Hitting move, thus angled hinging is more natural Your are mixing the physics of golf by swinging using punch elbow ,strong grip , angled hinging thus not being able to fade.

Could you elaborate a bit wider the above sentence ? What is a punch elbow ? And do you think my grip is strong ? I thought I've weakened it more to the neutral one, but maybe still to less..


hitting= the assembly pushes the pressure point down the plane . and the pressure point basically stays more behind the club. the arm will have a no roll feel. Total control of the club instead of being controlled by it.

swinging = natural horizontal hinge. The momentum of the club will close the clubface naturally thus we react to the momentum of the club and the pressure points always faces inward and towards ourself. of course when mixing mechanics.. its going to be different.

You got to learn to have to learn the AXE Motion using a more rotary motion. See Ted Fort's hitter motion , understand hitter motion and use them in your "swing" ( More stuart appleby?)

OK, what is AXE Motion ? Where can I see Ted Fort's hitter motion ?

Or you can use your natural swinging motion and use a pitch elbow and a more neutral grip. Open your plane line to play a fade. ( Hogan fights a hook)

What is a pitch elbow ?

both are valid models.

My layman 2 cents worth of tgm + "one plane" swing

Sorry for so many questions but this is just my first serious trip into the depth of TGM golf school

Cheers

[nuke99]

I guess when you mentioned OP you meant Jim Hardy.. He is the one who named the swing One plane , two plane swing.

However in TGM, the world is divided into Swinger and Hitters, right arm and left arm swing, Hand or body controlled swing. Regardless of the quantity of plane TGM use, On Plane is a must to good golf. Thats the beauty of TGM, explaining why things works with the compatible combinations. Beautiful book.

it may be worth to mention that somebody who is a TGM and created quite similar swing components as Jim Hardy. Namely Mac O'grady. His ideal model is pretty close to OP. Yet he have many flight patterns . and his preference is angled hinging too.

Have fun here, I learn tons and I met alot of good people here.

[Dariusz J.]

...OK, I have understood 2 important things already:

1. I need to have the Book before going deeply into discussion on this Forum.

2. I need to convert from a Swinger to a Hitter since I've got a lot of Hitter's elements in my motion. *

* I've already started training aimed at activation of my right arm during swing. I need to be an ambidextrous person in golf (funny, because I am 100% right-handed person and in golf I am pulling with my left hand like backhand in tennis). I want to play this season with OP swing - if I can 'activate' my right side, it would be more Hardy style, if not - more Quinton style with passive arms.
I plan to buy and red your TGM Book this year and start to deepen it in late autumn.

The last thing I intend to do here now is to record and post a face-on view video. Weather prognosis here in Poland says that by the end of the week winter is gone for good.

Cheers

[golfbulldog]

...OK, I have understood 2 important things already:

1. I need to have the Book before going deeply into discussion on this Forum.

2. I need to convert from a Swinger to a Hitter since I've got a lot of Hitter's elements in my motion. *

* I've already started training aimed at activation of my right arm during swing. I need to be an ambidextrous person in golf (funny, because I am 100% right-handed person and in golf I am pulling with my left hand like backhand in tennis). I want to play this season with OP swing - if I can 'activate' my right side, it would be more Hardy style, if not - more Quinton style with passive arms.
I plan to buy and red your TGM Book this year and start to deepen it in late autumn.

The last thing I intend to do here now is to record and post a face-on view video. Weather prognosis here in Poland says that by the end of the week winter is gone for good.

Cheers

Darius...please do not decide on the fact that you want to play "with a one plane swing"...

Where in that book by Jim Hardy does he explain how a one plane swing optimises your impact interval ( the time during which the ball is in contact with your clubhead)... PLEASE ignore the number of planes you have... the crucial thing is the alignments... and you really don't need the book to have a clear understanding of the alignments / imperatives...

a one or 2 plane swing is what the video camera sees ... not what the ball sees!!!!... The ball sees the alignments through impact interval....

I promise you that is what TGM is all about!! We use references to be specific to detail.... but the heart and soul of Homer Kelley's work is :-

3 Imperatives

1.FLAT LEFT WRIST / BENT RIGHT WRIST

2.CLUBHEAD LAG

3.STRAIGHT PLANE LINE

If you have these 3 things and a zillion plane swing ( Hardy's sequel!!! ) then you will have a much better season than if you have a one -plane swing but no understanding of these 3 things...

Really... i can not stress this enough!!!!!!!

PLEASE.... 3 imperatives.... that is all

Lets start a new thread to really get this done....hit or swing ... we will come to this later... remember Nuke started as swinger and then told he was more hitter so his advice may be slightly biased ... as all instruction is!!

BUT 3 imperatives first!!!! please... a crate of your finest vodka delivered to your door if i am wrong about this!!!

[nuke99]

Quinton style.. he is a swinger.. and trust me, he roll his arms more than we think. that is why he uses neutral grip. in my opinion he barely use punch elbow for most of his shots. he is not that passive arms as you think.

Hardy, hitter. Now this is passive arms.

Now both of them wants you to use maximum pivot delivery. I say its the same thing but one is a swing and the other a hit with very little component switch. A hit or a swing, is very much a person choice , but you have a more natural Swing motion.. changing to hit will take much longer. So, just take neutral grip, pitch elbow, do a little work on sequential release ( karate chop), keep the rest of your motion and you should learn to do it relatively quickly . I would say this is the quick fix areas.

Both of this person will never teach you, Flat left wrist, LAG, Compression, Power, ( from 98 mph to 112 mph average for me)which you can only learn properly in TGM.. i suggest viewing the videos by Jeff Hull, Lynn Blake , Ben Doyle, Ted Fort to have an idea. these are work in progress. Now this takes tons of time to see results,, especially if you don't have a TGM coach beside you.

^_^ once you know how to do it.. you will be hooked.

[Dariusz J.]

Quinton style.. he is a swinger.. and trust me, he roll his arms more than we think. that is why he uses neutral grip. in my opinion he barely use punch elbow for most of his shots. he is not that passive arms as you think.

Hardy, hitter. Now this is passive arms.

Now both of them wants you to use maximum pivot delivery. I say its the same thing but one is a swing and the other a hit with very little component switch. A hit or a swing, is very much a person choice , but you have a more natural Swing motion.. changing to hit will take much longer. So, just take neutral grip, pitch elbow, do a little work on sequential release ( karate chop), keep the rest of your motion and you should learn to do it relatively quickly . I would say this is the quick fix areas.

Both of this person will never teach you, Flat left wrist, LAG, Compression, Power, ( from 98 mph to 112 mph average for me)which you can only learn properly in TGM.. i suggest viewing the videos by Jeff Hull, Lynn Blake , Ben Doyle, Ted Fort to have an idea. these are work in progress. Now this takes tons of time to see results,, especially if you don't have a TGM coach beside you.

^_^ once you know how to do it.. you will be hooked.

Nuke, where I can find an explanation what is a Punch Elbow and what is a Pitch Elbow ? What is a sequential karate chop release ? It will help me to understand what you are talking about

BTW, as you see I am here in this room...that's why I already before classified myself as a Swinger. I agree to you 100% - I'd prefer to use my natural tendency instead of changing for Hitter's motion, since it's very hard for me to activate my right hand. I am really very willing to try TGM method but I need a starting point. It seems for me that it's hard to do it without at least full basic knowledge that I suffer with.

Cheers

[Dariusz J.]

I promise you that is what TGM is all about!! We use references to be specific to detail.... but the heart and soul of Homer Kelley's work is :-

3 Imperatives

1.FLAT LEFT WRIST / BENT RIGHT WRIST

2.CLUBHEAD LAG

3.STRAIGHT PLANE LINE

If you have these 3 things and a zillion plane swing ( Hardy's sequel!!! ) then you will have a much better season than if you have a one -plane swing but no understanding of these 3 things...


GB, thanks for this post. Well, you can believe or not but even not being a TGMer I knew that those 3 imperatives are keys for good golf.
Flat left wrist/bent right wrist is something we mortals call as a push release.
That's why I never put special attention to the most common crossover release type.
Clubhead lag - well, it depends what kind of lag we are talking about - dorsi flexion right wrist lag (right wrist bent) or radial deviation right wrist lag (right wrist cock). Push release (bent right wrist) favours the first one, unless someone is so gifted to transfer the wrist cocking lag in the first part of the DS into the wrist bent lag in the middle of the DS. If a golfer cannot transfer it soon enough he is left with a crossover release type. This is how I understand lag in my plain language.
Srtraight plane line - yes, this is the ideal we all should go for.

Cheers

[6bmike]

GB, thanks for this post. Well, you can believe or not but even not being a TGMer I knew that those 3 imperatives are keys for good golf.
Flat left wrist/bent right wrist is something we mortals call as a push release.
That's why I never put special attention to the most common crossover release type.
Clubhead lag - well, it depends what kind of lag we are talking about - dorsi flexion right wrist lag (right wrist bent) or radial deviation right wrist lag (right wrist cock). Push release (bent right wrist) favours the first one, unless someone is so gifted to transfer the wrist cocking lag in the first part of the DS into the wrist bent lag in the middle of the DS. If a golfer cannot transfer it soon enough he is left with a crossover release type. This is how I understand lag in my plain language.
Srtraight plane line - yes, this is the ideal we all should go for.

Cheers

I think you have a wrong 'notion' on a few things.

A Flat Level left Wrist with a Bent Level Right Wrist at impact is NOT a push release or any release at all. It is an alignment at impact. It is what Homer Kelley constructed as the Flying Wedges. There is no push or cross over release in the TGM. A straightening right arm can drive the Bent Level Right Wrist or the Left Arm can swing the same right wrist condition. The right wrist does not push- that is a throw-away.
What you call a cross over release is a Swivel of the Left hand after impact which still had the First Imperative.
Clubhead Lag- one of THREE types of Lag discribed by Homer Kelley- is the hands leading the clubhead. The clubhead is resisting the Drag and Thrust of the Hands. This is not the Left wrist cock angle. It is the pull or push of the shaft dragging the clubhead. You were referring to Accumulator Lag, the angle of the cocked Left Wrist that needs to be released and roll into impact.

I know this is a bunch of words but they are very simply alignments.

good luck

[golfbulldog]

[quote=Dariusz J.;39707

GB, thanks for this post. Well, you can believe or not but even not being a TGMer I knew that those 3 imperatives are keys for good golf.
Flat left wrist/bent right wrist is something we mortals call as a push release.
That's why I never put special attention to the most common crossover release type.
Clubhead lag - well, it depends what kind of lag we are talking about - dorsi flexion right wrist lag (right wrist bent) or radial deviation right wrist lag (right wrist cock). Push release (bent right wrist) favours the first one, unless someone is so gifted to transfer the wrist cocking lag in the first part of the DS into the wrist bent lag in the middle of the DS. If a golfer cannot transfer it soon enough he is left with a crossover release type. This is how I understand lag in my plain language.
Srtraight plane line - yes, this is the ideal we all should go for.

Cheers[/QUOTE]

lag is the secret... you see whichever version of your lag definition you chose you are using a visual manifestation of lag... its what the golf commentator on tv sees NOT WHAT THE GOLFER FEELS

TGM TEACHES THAT LAG IS A SENSORY EXPERIENCE... you can have lag with no left wrist cock........

TGM TEACHES THAT... rest of world doesn't!! you feel it in the base of your index finger... watch the end of the ben hogan home video... he tells you where it is!!

and nebt right wrist need not have any push motion at all... in fact only a hitter would think in those terms... Ted thinks about freezing his right wrist bent and using triceps to push.... hitting

i try to keep my right wrist bent and have no pushing feel at all - swinging....

again your conventional stuff only expresses what is seen and not what is intended / felt.... give it a go...