Brian Gay Swingvision

[12 piece bucket]

Thanks 12P...I enjoy watching the clip in full screen mode with no sound...it's amazing how much the clubhead appears to decelerate from ball contact.

yes sir . . . The ball hits the clubface as hard as the club hits the ball. Another interesting point too . . .

At release the clubhead HAS TO decelerate inorder to comply with conservation of angular momentum. Angular Momentum = massXvelocityXradius. So as the wrist uncocks the lever assembly is extended and in order for the momentum to be conserved the velocity necessarily has to decrease.

Also . . .

This may LOOK LIKE Hitting due to the shortness of the stroke, the right wrist remaining level and not cocking, and Backstroke ending at Top . . . but pay attention to the wrist action . . . you are seeing classic Standard Wrist Action . . . Uncocking THEN Roll. This is Swinging period. The alignments are a little different than all the accumulator lag and floppy power packages that you are used to observing.

EFFICIENCY IN MOTION. . . nothing moves that don't have to move.

[lagster]

yes sir . . . The ball hits the clubface as hard as the club hits the ball. Another interesting point too . . .

At release the clubhead HAS TO decelerate inorder to comply with conservation of angular momentum. Angular Momentum = massXvelocityXradius. So as the wrist uncocks the lever assembly is extended and in order for the momentum to be conserved the velocity necessarily has to decrease.

Also . . .

This may LOOK LIKE Hitting due to the shortness of the stroke, the right wrist remaining level and not cocking, and Backstroke ending at Top . . . but pay attention to the wrist action . . . you are seeing classic Standard Wrist Action . . . Uncocking THEN Roll. This is Swinging period. The alignments are a little different than all the accumulator lag and floppy power packages that you are used to observing.

EFFICIENCY IN MOTION. . . nothing moves that don't have to move.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Right... he is Swinging here. Good analysis by Mr. 12 Piece.

It would be interesting to put a Hitter beside him to see the (subtle)differences.

[Mike O]

yes sir . . . The ball hits the clubface as hard as the club hits the ball. Another interesting point too . . .

At release the clubhead HAS TO decelerate inorder to comply with conservation of angular momentum. Angular Momentum = massXvelocityXradius. So as the wrist uncocks the lever assembly is extended and in order for the momentum to be conserved the velocity necessarily has to decrease.

Also . . .

This may LOOK LIKE Hitting due to the shortness of the stroke, the right wrist remaining level and not cocking, and Backstroke ending at Top . . . but pay attention to the wrist action . . . you are seeing classic Standard Wrist Action . . . Uncocking THEN Roll. This is Swinging period. The alignments are a little different than all the accumulator lag and floppy power packages that you are used to observing.

EFFICIENCY IN MOTION. . . nothing moves that don't have to move.

? .

[golfbulldog]

7-19. LAG LOADING
This category recognizes the over-all control by the Clubhead Lag Pressure Point (6-C-2) and that manipulation of its Loading Procedure determines the Physics of both Hitting and Swinging (Preface). (Study 6-H-0, 7-3 and 7-20.)

Isn't the difference between hitting and swinging ( push or pull) determined by loading action - ie. the physics. Then to get the physically forces aligned correctly you choose components which are better suited to the chosen loading action??

So standard wrist action works well for swingers because it means the position of the right forearm when pp3 is loaded is more suited to seuential release etc ...

Nobody is talking about loading action in this thread or Cabrera and i think it is crucial....!!!!!

primary distinction is loading action.... all other components are personal preferences that might be better suited to hit or swing...

[john riegger]

there is a definite difference in the loading action between hitting and swinging.the positionof the right forearm is completly different.with hitting you carry the hands and with swinging it is like dragging the wet mop.maybe 1% of all golfers are hitters.with hitting there is more right arm participation.and you drive the right arm inthe downswing.as far as wrist actioni use the same for bothhitting or swinging.the hinge action is different.with hitting you only useangled hinge action.swinging you can use all 3 hinge actions.with swinging you can still have right arm participation and it will feel like you are using the right arm but it is really being pulledinto position by the pulling motion from the left side.
as far as cabera i have played with him several times and he is definitely a swinger.i have not seen but a few players on tour that are hitters

[bray]

John,

Can you post who on tour (Nationwide and PGA) that you've seen that hit?????

Sorting Through the Golf Nut's Catalog.
B-Ray

[john riegger]

personallyi can hit or swing from shot to shot.i have seen tiger back in 2000 use hitting motion on a few shots.trevino use to use hitting motion on certain wedge shots.for the most part everyone is a swinger.some players appear to be hitting but are just holf off or chicken winging.i do not think mostplayers know the difference inmy opinion.brian gay knowshow to hit and has done it before.maybe elkknows how too,but i have never seen him apply it.i am sure mac knows how too hit but you never know.david orr can probably answer that.

[efnef]

personallyi can hit or swing from shot to shot.i have seen tiger back in 2000 use hitting motion on a few shots.trevino use to use hitting motion on certain wedge shots.for the most part everyone is a swinger.some players appear to be hitting but are just holf off or chicken winging.i do not think mostplayers know the difference inmy opinion.brian gay knowshow to hit and has done it before.maybe elkknows how too,but i have never seen him apply it.i am sure mac knows how too hit but you never know.david orr can probably answer that.

I remember an old posting about someone asking Elkington if he was hitting on a certain shot, and he replied, "Swinging, always swinging."

[EdStraker]

personallyi can hit or swing from shot to shot.i have seen tiger back in 2000 use hitting motion on a few shots.trevino use to use hitting motion on certain wedge shots.for the most part everyone is a swinger.some players appear to be hitting but are just holf off or chicken winging.i do not think mostplayers know the difference inmy opinion.brian gay knowshow to hit and has done it before.maybe elkknows how too,but i have never seen him apply it.i am sure mac knows how too hit but you never know.david orr can probably answer that.

I read an article about Elk discussing short game with Stan Utley and they discussed a hitting motion. Elk said he always swings on all strokes, chipping, pitching, punch and full swing.

I don't have the article readily available, if I come across it, I will post the link.

[mb6606]

there is a definite difference in the loading action between hitting and swinging.the positionof the right forearm is completly different.with hitting you carry the hands and with swinging it is like dragging the wet mop.maybe 1% of all golfers are hitters.with hitting there is more right arm participation.and you drive the right arm inthe downswing.as far as wrist actioni use the same for bothhitting or swinging.the hinge action is different.with hitting you only useangled hinge action.swinging you can use all 3 hinge actions.with swinging you can still have right arm participation and it will feel like you are using the right arm but it is really being pulledinto position by the pulling motion from the left side.
as far as cabera i have played with him several times and he is definitely a swinger.i have not seen but a few players on tour that are hitters

Nice to see an expert telling it like it is - not many players are pure hitters.
John, I hope the ball continues to bounce your way on tour!