bucket , I don't agree with this , these guys are snowing you , none of them can sniff Hogan
Speaking of sniffing . . . how's offspring treating y'all? Tried to tell you man!!!!
Talk to me about this Hogan stuff . . . . Not really worried about the hitting/swinging part but what about the right shoulder staying on top of the left arm? Junk? Maybe? or don't matter?
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 12-23-2010 at 11:15 PM.
Not junk just the way it is given tsp or lower isn't it? You got photos of any pros with their hands or arms above their right shoulder in Release?
That's not exactly what I'm trying to describe . .. but this would be kinda the opposite of it . . . Look at where the hands are in space . . . where they are in relationship to the right shoulder . . . where the club cuts the right arm on the way down . . the relationship of the left arm to the stance line when the left arm is approximately parallel to the ground . . . also look at the relationship of the angle of the left arm to the ground at deliveryish . . . Hogan's left arm is essentially vertical to the ground . . . Cink is out angled
__________________
Aloha Mr. Hand
Behold my hands; reach hither thy hand
Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 12-24-2010 at 12:23 AM.
That first frame looks like a TSP to my eyes. Like his Right Shoulder is taking the Hands and clubshaft down "a" TSP. A steep one though, sort of like Jacks. Nothing like Hogan's flattish TSP angle.
The second frame when you look at the shaft angle it is super steep. No longer pointing at the Turned Shoulder position almost Turning Shoulder. But there's some shaft droop there so if you drew a line from the sweetspot to the #3 pp then maybe the Sweetspot Plane, the real Plane so to speak, is pointing more towards the Turned position of the Right Shoulder. Its a stretch I know....either that or he's shifted up to higher plane from the TSP.
Assuming he didnt shift up we're looking at a Single shift, no shift on the plane angle from Top to impact. Elbow then TSP at Top then down the TSP .......something Homer would have preferred to a Double Shift actually.......in the later editions....
You know the crazy thing is that Homer changed his ideas about the Elbow Plane as the editions progressed but to my mind didnt change some of the surrounding references to Elbow Plane. You know how he talks about starting the club back on the shaft and elbow plane...........in the audio tapes he throws that one out the window. Forget the shaft plane in startup actually you could say forget about the shaft laying on the inclined plane even.....though its part of 1-L ......he's talking clubhead plane (as opposed to shaft or LCOG) moving on the TSP up and down , Zero Shift. Dont hear about that too much...... He prioritized things with not shifting ranking higher than any benefit to the Elbow Plane or the Shaft laying flat on the Inclined Plane. As I hear him anyways. Not that you dont options of course , lots and lots of them. Trillions of useful options, multiple shifts included.
Speaking of sniffing . . . how's offspring treating y'all? Tried to tell you man!!!!
Talk to me about this Hogan stuff . . . . Not really worried about the hitting/swinging part but what about the right shoulder staying on top of the left arm? Junk? Maybe? or don't matter?
Look at how he tilts and pivots , I can see what you are saying
Not much time as ya told me, but I see that cox and abs forum has got you on hogan . What I see is the camera angle is promoting the deal you are seeing , however I'd say its how the left arm gets down that differentiates the swinger vs the hitter. With regard to hogan he sure hits some punchy shots like the one you put up when he played snead / 18th hole approach, however look at his full swings and tell me you see an elevated right shoulder / I see an externally rotated right shoulder , rounding off somewhat while his left side bend tilts more into the ball . Also note how its his pivot which is regaining flexion whilst rotating that shifts the left arm out a bit and then down, rather than launchpad and right shoulder pushing down on the left arm and note his right elbow move into a throwing postion / with right shoulder supporting
Look at how he tilts and pivots , I can see what you are saying
Not much time as ya told me, but I see that cox and abs forum has got you on hogan . What I see is the camera angle is promoting the deal you are seeing , however I'd say its how the left arm gets down that differentiates the swinger vs the hitter. With regard to hogan he sure hits some punchy shots like the one you put up when he played snead / 18th hole approach, however look at his full swings and tell me you see an elevated right shoulder / I see an externally rotated right shoulder , rounding off somewhat while his left side bend tilts more into the ball . Also note how its his pivot which is regaining flexion whilst rotating that shifts the left arm out a bit and then down, rather than launchpad and right shoulder pushing down on the left arm and note his right elbow move into a throwing postion / with right shoulder supporting
Talk to me . . . . Best I could do fast on pulling it together . . .
How does this part work . . .
externally rotated right shoulder , rounding off somewhat while his left side bend tilts more into the ball . Also note how its his pivot which is regaining flexion whilst rotating that shifts the left arm out a bit and then down, rather than launchpad and right shoulder pushing down on the left arm
Talk to me . . . . Best I could do fast on pulling it together . . .
How does this part work . . .
externally rotated right shoulder , rounding off somewhat while his left side bend tilts more into the ball . Also note how its his pivot which is regaining flexion whilst rotating that shifts the left arm out a bit and then down, rather than launchpad and right shoulder pushing down on the left arm
Interesting language you're using there. Is that a dialect of TGM? Not sure I follow you , interesting stuff though , really. Im interested in what it is that drops the left arm down. You saying there's something in the pivot that drops the arms? As opposed to a vertical drop of the hands plain and simple. I dunno.
But I gotta say (again) , the left arm isnt on the inclined plane given any #3 angle so why would you want the right shoulder pushing the left arm down? Down to where? Somewhere above the ball? Anywhere in particular? Why not pushing the Power Package or the Hands or the #3 or the LCOG?
If you draw a line from the ball through the #3 pp I think you'll see Hogan as having his right shoulder on the same plane angle at Top and in the second photo , Startdown. Then in the third photo he's already in to release ......dont look at his left wrist cock look at his lengthening right arm........ its started .....4, 1, 2, 3 right? And since he's dropped to a lower plane the Hands are on a lower plane than the original TSP and the Right Shoulder has stopped moving towards the ball gone higher than the original TSP.
Or maybe Ive had too much egg nog? The camera angle is off there too but Ive seen Hogan;s hands lower than the TSP really early in a bunch of photos. Im thinking higher than TSP is way worse , than lower. WAY.
Here's a similar photo that shows the ball for any of you guys who know how to draw lines. A line from ball to #3pp will have the left arm above it. A line from right shoulder to left arm will extend out way above the ball no? I dunno.
have nothing to contribute other than thanking you lot.
I love it when you guys start 'chewing the cud'.
All of it done with respect too, never (or rarely) a cross word. Mature posters on LBG!
had to get some christmas smilies in too!
Don't we normally have a christmas yoda at this time of year?
__________________ The student senses his teacher’s steadfast belief and quiet resolve: “This is doable. It is doable by you. The pathway is there. All you need is determination and time.” And together, they make it happen.
All you guys should just all get together with your dowels, driveway markers and strings somewhere and just work it all out and report back to us. It is amazing that after all these years on the forum we haven't moved foward on this issue have we? Reminds me of business meetings. Therefore it is time to form and have a committee meeting on this. Although in the past it was fun to experiment with different stuff it just doesn't make me a better golfer. all I want now is to select one way, one pattern that will do it for me. Something that I know if I can master and get consistent with, l good golf will result. Once you guys have reached a consensus then this opinion could be filed as permanent, something you can make book on and left alone.. . then on to other issues.
Hybrid Mode
