I think that 12 Pc. wants to know if a level-ish Downstroke shoulder turn has a greater influence on the player "going left" to stay On-Plane after Impact more than something else. In other words, he is wondering if an On-Plane Downstroke Right shoulder contributes to "Swinging out to Right Field"; defined as the Clubhead and Shaft rising above Plane after Impact.
That...is sooo Pivot Controlled Hands.
Although a Flat Right Shoulder Downstroke rotation WILL cause the Hands to "fire Left" after Impact, it does so at the expense of needing compensations for other critical Alignments.
Such As: Needing, a Sweep or Random Sweep Release to FORCE the Right Forearm back to its Impact Fix Angle of Approach BEFORE the Right Shoulder FORCES the Right Forearm to become to high at Impact which is a Hackers over the Top move. Certainly this can be adjusted to eventually become a fine Golf Swing.
But really now; do we need another compensation? Rather than forcing the Hands and Right Forearm to comply with an off-Plane Right Shoulder, it makes more sense if we train the Right Shoulder comply and assist in achieving the critical Right Forearm Impact Alignment?
The Club won't swing above plane if the Player has "Rhythm". Hinging....through the Impact Interval will allow the Clubhead and Shaft to remain On-Plane until the Finish Swivel.
Hinging is easy to perform on the Elbow Plane (because of the large pulley). If you want to try something a bit more challenging, then use the TSP (because of the infinitesimally small Pulley when using a Snap Release).
Thanks for setting the course D. Im just saying that a levelish shoulder turn as you put it.........makes the Right Shoulder not aligned to the base of the Plane in Startdown where it's dragging the Power Package .... You'd need a compensation of some sort to prevent the Sweetspot from following the above plane shoulder turn for that period. The period of Shoulder Acceleration.
In terms of when you should drop to a lower plane assuming you are going to: Id say the earlier the better. You want to give yourself as much time as possible on the Plane your going to make contact on. Hogan was "flat" at Top then dropped early.....hence the hands or left arm if you prefer under the right shoulder. Nice stuff. And not that much of a shift in terms of degrees.
Although a Flat Right Shoulder Downstroke rotation WILL cause the Hands to "fire Left" after Impact, it does so at the expense of needing compensations for other critical Alignments.
You don't need to compensate to do this, Daryl. But you need to change the relationship between the pivot and the arms swing. You need to turn more through and delay the #4 release. Or, perhaps, as 12 pc talks about - cover the left arm better with the right shoulder.
You don't need to compensate to do this, Daryl. But you need to change the relationship between the pivot and the arms swing. You need to turn more through and delay the #4 release. Or, perhaps, as 12 pc talks about - cover the left arm better with the right shoulder.
Well, thank goodness I only need to "change the Relationship between the Pivot and the Arm Swing, turn more and Delay the Release of the #4 Accumulator".
I'm not sure that I have communicated this very well . . .
I'm just basically saying that the right shoulder stays ON TOP of the left arm keeping the left arm down and the hand down . . . if the right shoulder motion is more vertical and UNDER it complies with a steeper plane and or a plane shift . . .
You see this a lot from players who have their body hiding the handle DTL past impact
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Last edited by 12 piece bucket : 12-24-2010 at 04:53 PM.
Thanks everyone. good stuff. I was gettin it together before the cold retired me for the winter. Hopefully when spring comes I will pick up where I left off. Got some good new info to reinforce what I am doing. Plan on hitting gym to maintain those core muscles and stretch til march. Then I will ready to call my teacher golfgnome for some meetups.
I'm not sure that I have communicated this very well . . .
I'm just basically saying that the right shoulder stays ON TOP of the left arm keeping the left arm down and the hand down . . . if the right shoulder motion is more vertical and UNDER it complies with a steeper plane and or a plane shift . . .
You see this a lot from players who have their body hiding the handle DTL past impact
I think I understand what you're saying. The Right Shoulder and Left Arm are aligned, but not to the Swing plane or the swing plane as we typically think of it. And the Shoulder staying on top of the Left Arm is an Alignment that will keep the Left Arm going Down.
I think I understand what you're saying. The Right Shoulder and Left Arm are aligned, but not to the Swing plane or the swing plane as we typically think of it. And the Shoulder staying on top of the Left Arm is an Alignment that will keep the Left Arm going Down.
God Bless Everyone!
ICT
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
I think I understand what you're saying. The Right Shoulder and Left Arm are aligned, but not to the Swing plane or the swing plane as we typically think of it. And the Shoulder staying on top of the Left Arm is an Alignment that will keep the Left Arm going Down.
Sure . . . but look at the location of the HANDLE . . . some raise it up . . . some keep it low . . . I'm saying that shoulders torso or whatever is providing support to keep the handle from raising UP . . no that it's wrong . . . just different . . . keeps the club on the Arc of Approach . . . and on the face of the elbow plane rather than a plane angle shift . . . for instance fowler shifts the angle . . . I don't think Nicklaus in his day really shifted dramatically . . . could be wrong . . . could post pics. Fowler goes low to high . . . Nicklaus just stayed high . . . . Hoch too . . . Furyk is an interesting study because he does all that whacky stuff but once he gets to delivery or slotted or whatever you wanna call it . . . club moves pretty similar to Hogan. . .
I'm not saying this is hitting . . . or swinging . . . I don't know how you catalog it really . . . It seems to be more Arc of Approach procedure-ish . . .
Sure . . . but look at the location of the HANDLE . . . some raise it up . . . some keep it low . . . I'm saying that shoulders torso or whatever is providing support to keep the handle from raising UP . . no that it's wrong . . . just different . . . keeps the club on the Arc of Approach . . . and on the face of the elbow plane rather than a plane angle shift . . . for instance fowler shifts the angle . . . I don't think Nicklaus in his day really shifted dramatically . . . could be wrong . . . could post pics. Fowler goes low to high . . . Nicklaus just stayed high . . . . Hoch too . . . Furyk is an interesting study because he does all that whacky stuff but once he gets to delivery or slotted or whatever you wanna call it . . . club moves pretty similar to Hogan. . .
I'm not saying this is hitting . . . or swinging . . . I don't know how you catalog it really . . . It seems to be more Arc of Approach procedure-ish . . .
I know exactly what you mean bro. The Handle raises but WE think it should stay down. It should stay down. Mine stays down, way down. Keep in mind that it's pretty easy to stay down with my snap release Horizontal Hinge. I'm sure that your right shoulder alignment will help with that but I'm saying that Rhythm and a Flat Left Wrist should do that and the Left Elbow needs to Bend after Impact. So, you can't glue the upper left arm to the chest (compensation) because the Elbow can't bend in time, so, the Handle will Raise when the Left Arm raises. So, I look at this procedure (compensation) and alignments you're referring to as a compensation for a compensation.
Also, you have to keep going down after impact so save some right elbow bend for that purpose. You need bend to have the right forearm on the Angle of Approach for Impact anyway.
I wonder if the Taly would teach that? Travel completely around the Pulley and bend the left elbow before the left arm raises.
I just looked at the video's and the guy demonstrating the Taly keeps his left arm glued to his chest also.
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