Hogan Right Shoulder Motion Elbow Plane Hitter

[O.B.Left]

If I understand you guys correctly you're talking about "swinging left" on the Elbow Plane from a DTL perspective in Follow Through. If so how does the Right Shoulder keep the Hands down on that plane? Havent the Hands long since left their lagging the shoulders condition?

[BerntR]

OB;

If you check my "apocalyptic" posts on accumulator 4 maybe you will be convinced that the shoulder turn always stays ahead of the hands. But you have to keep powering the turn to take advantage of it.

I am not a fan of the swinging left term. It sounds like a swing plane manipulation. But I believe that when it's done in a good way it is only about sustaining the lag pressure and supporting the plane.

However, the swing plane is outside - in. But it is paired with a release that is strongly inside - out. Combine the two and you get a three dimensional impact and a divot down the target line.

[O.B.Left]

OB;

If you check my "apocalyptic" posts on accumulator 4 maybe you will be convinced that the shoulder turn always stays ahead of the hands. But you have to keep powering the turn to take advantage of it.

I am not a fan of the swinging left term. It sounds like a swing plane manipulation. But I believe that when it's done in a good way it is only about sustaining the lag pressure and supporting the plane.

The shoulder turn always stays ahead of the hands? Perhaps we need to define what this means to each of us.

To me that means that the shoulders are powering the hands and that the Hands havent separated or accelerated away from the shoulders. Meaning the right elbow is fully bent , the left arm is still in contact with the left pec. So you havent Released at all. The power accumulators are remain fully loaded. Well at least 4 and 1....which in my book means 2 and 3 are still fully loaded too. Im thinking you must have a different meaning in mind for "stays ahead" , not sure.

Not saying there isnt a feel of turning the pivot hard , keeping the arms packed for elbow planers. But a real would be a different deal altogether. Wouldnt it?

[BerntR]

The shoulder turn always stays ahead of the hands? Perhaps we need to define what this means to each of us.

To me that means that the shoulders are powering the hands and that the Hands havent separated or accelerated away from the shoulders. Meaning the right elbow is fully bent , the left arm is still in contact with the left pec. So you havent Released at all. The power accumulators are remain fully loaded. Well at least 4 and 1....which in my book means 2 and 3 are still fully loaded too. Im thinking you must have a different meaning in mind for "stays ahead" , not sure.

Quote:

Yes I do have a different meaning. When your left hand is pointing at the ball, the axis that runs from your neck to your left shoulder is pointing towards the target, or perhaps slightly left of the target. That leaves at leas 90 degrees of accumulator #4 lag. If you are able to turn hard it will translate to more swing speed and more ball compression. The alternative is a left shoulder that stops turning before impact. My point is that the shoulders will power the hands even if PP#4 isnt't being used at all. It is all in the geometry. You can release all you want. As long as you don't stop turning the shoulders. This part of Acc #4 lag pressure is maximised when the shoulders are 90* ahead of the club head. The only key in practice is to keep turning hard until past impact. I'm not inventing new forces here. This is plain mechanics.

Not saying there isnt a feel of turning the pivot hard , keeping the arms packed for elbow planers. But a real would be a different deal altogether. Wouldnt it?

It's real. If you don't believe it try to replace the left hand with something that hangs from your neck. I am confident that half or quarter strokes will be sufficient to feel the difference.

PS: Happy Christmas, OB Left. It has been a pleasure to agree and disagree with you in 2k10.

[O.B.Left]

Same here BerntR , all the best for you and yours in the coming year.

Ob

[O.B.Left]

PS: Happy Christmas, OB Left. It has been a pleasure to agree and disagree with you in 2k10.

BerntR Didnt realize we'd be sneaking some more "disagrees" in before the new year....cool. It aint over till its over.

I love your thinking mans approach, keep em coming. Im being perfectly serious here. You make me think .........which is often kinda pathetic but hey Im trying.

Imbalanced ..... ya, that changes everything. So we've got the circular orbit , which seeks out a straight line given enough force (like a rock on a string) but we need to direct this straight line not through the ball in some manner (arc or angle of approach visual equivalent given parallax) but somewhere else? This somewhere else must be different for each club , for each swingweight for each ball position ..... how do we locate this moveable feast of somewhere elses?

That would make golf not difficult but impossible wouldnt it? Like looking at the ball through prism glasses? Which you can get when hitting out of water if you know what I mean.

The Aiming Point can move ...hmmm We direct the force at it and its not where the ball is ........necessarily. Hmmm On the same Delivery Line as the ball I believe to make up for the rate at which different club switch ends ..

Are you talking about different places located on the Delivery Line , clubhead path or outside or inside of it? Something in total conflict with Homer's directing the orbit or its straight line, plane line through the ball? Which would move the plane to this new somewhere else not through the ball.

Your reverse torque sounds like vertical to me......maybe steering even. Not being insulting here every body fights it. Put me on a mat for five minutes and Im doing it. Do you fight pulls but tend to miss both ways? Sounds like a compensational "reverse torque" to me if your answer is yes. Maybe I dont know what "reverse toque" means? Ah, in fact I know I dont know what it means.....