yodas luke, how are you. hope you are having a great holiday season,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what some people here are looking for is not being discussed. on other websites they are discussing the two ways to release the clubhead. one method calls it cp or cf release. another calls it hitting with leverage or slinging the clubhead. it is not just about the right shoulder. what people are wanting to know is how to get to hogans positions instead of vj singh's thru the impact area. is there any difference in what one needs to do to accomplish the two differnt positions at impact?
What people are wanting to know is how to get to hogans positions instead of vj singh's thru the impact area. is there any difference in what one needs to do to accomplish the two differnt positions at impact?
Start with the idea that V.J. is more than half-a-foot taller than was Ben.
To be sure, Swing Plane is not determined solely by height -- witness Matt Kuchar -- but, that fact should definitely not be left out of the equation.
Having written the above, it now occurs to me that Swing Plane and its influencing Component Alignments -- the overriding theme of this thread -- may not be the "positions" you are referencing. In fact, since I'm not following the "other websites" to which you refer, I must admit that I have no idea what you're talking about. Please specify the alignments you seek to differentiate. Thanks!
yodas luke, how are you. hope you are having a great holiday season,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what some people here are looking for is not being discussed. on other websites they are discussing the two ways to release the clubhead. one method calls it cp or cf release. another calls it hitting with leverage or slinging the clubhead. it is not just about the right shoulder. what people are wanting to know is how to get to hogans positions instead of vj singh's thru the impact area. is there any difference in what one needs to do to accomplish the two differnt positions at impact?
I don't profess to be an expert in all the methods out there. But, I know that CP stands for centripetal and CF stands for centrifugal. Whether those are the best names for each of the styles can be an entirely different discussion.
I also know that this method has deep TGM roots. In the limited amount of CP and CF information to which I've been privy, it seems as if it's an expansion on Plane Line Tracing. From a Square Stance, the golfer would be able to trace multiple Plane Lines to the left of the target and multiple Plane Lines to the right of the target. But, each Plane Line is still a line.
Personally: I prefer to rely on the same Plane Line and Stance Line relationship, with varying degrees of Angle of Attack based on the length of the club. If I change my Plane Line, I also change my Stance Line to match. In order to create curvature, I adjust my Grip to Clubface. Unless it's a specialty shot, I find little need for having 7 Plane Lines for every club in my bag. I like the Machine Concept. And, I'm not going to exclude 1-L-19.
I'm not trying to cloud the water, but it's difficult to get too deep into this conversation about the two positions without considering many things:
Golfer's stature, shallow or steep Angle of Attack, camera location, Steering, single Plane or bent Plane, Inside-Out, Outside-In, is Clubface affecting Plane, etc., etc., etc.
what people are wanting to know is how to get to hogans positions instead of vj singh's thru the impact area.
Maintain Both Flying Wedges (Hogan) until Follow-Through or just your Left Arm Flying Wedge (VJ). In both cases, the First Imperative Flat Left Wrist and 1-L-8 apply.
I think the assumption that the hands and the clubhead are moved on the same plane is preventing us to fully understand what's really going on in Hogan's swing.
I think the assumption that the hands and the clubhead are moved on the same plane is preventing us to fully understand what's really going on in Hogan's swing.
That's what defines the Plane. Hands and Clubhead.
That's what defines the Plane. Hands and Clubhead.
I know.
So ideally at impact you have the whole club, the hands and the right forearm on plane. The whole left arm and the right upper arm is above plane. That is a lot of moving mass above the swing plane right there. This moving mass isn't counter balanced with mass sitting below the swing plane. Cause there aint nothing there.
In other words; the primary lever assembly isn't properly balanced for an on plane motion powered by an on-plane linear force. If you thrust on-plane the lever assembly will be moved off plane. And the clubface will be rotated open. So you have to manipulate the direction of your linear thrust and add a little anti clock wise torque to keep the cluface under control to make the stroke look pretty and and well behaved through impact. But you would really fighting against a mass distribution that is unbalanced.
But I don't think good golfers do that. I think they swing and thrust on planes we don't see. Cause we really haven't figured out what planes we should be looking at when we study the physics involved.
Some good golfers are so close to what is commonly held as ideal planar motion that we take it as a confirmation of a very good stroke and a very good theory. At the same time there are equally consistent players who are doing all kinds of plane shifting and plane bending that are equally effective. Then we tell each other that we are looking at compensation and that they get good results not because of but in spite of.
So ideally at impact you have the whole club, the hands and the right forearm on plane. The whole left arm and the right upper arm is above plane. That is a lot of moving mass above the swing plane right there. This moving mass isn't counter balanced with mass sitting below the swing plane. Cause there aint nothing there.
In other words; the primary lever assembly isn't properly balanced for an on plane motion powered by an on-plane linear force. If you thrust on-plane the lever assembly will be moved off plane. And the clubface will be rotated open. So you have to manipulate the direction of your linear thrust and add a little anti clock wise torque to keep the cluface under control to make the stroke look pretty and and well behaved through impact. But you would really fighting against a mass distribution that is unbalanced.
But I don't think good golfers do that. I think they swing and thrust on planes we don't see. Cause we really haven't figured out what planes we should be looking at when we study the physics involved.
Some good golfers are so close to what is commonly held as ideal planar motion that we take it as a confirmation of a very good stroke and a very good theory. At the same time there are equally consistent players who are doing all kinds of plane shifting and plane bending that are equally effective. Then we tell each other that we are looking at compensation and that they get good results not because of but in spite of.
Well, "if" TGM is, in the main, power package alignments? That is no small thing you just said!!
In other words; the primary lever assembly isn't properly balanced for an on plane motion powered by an on-plane linear force.
[Color and Bold emphasis by Yoda]
Nor is a hammer "properly balanced". But, if you hurl one end-over-end, it must rotate around its longitudinal center of gravity, i.e., its sweetspot. Not symmetrically like a Chinese throwing star, but in a funky sort of head-over-heels way.
And so it is with the "On Plane Motion" of the Golf Stroke. The Clubshaft and Left Arm must rotate about the Sweetspot. Unless you prevent that from happening (which most golfers do). We have a name for that . . .
Steering.
The First Snare (3-F-7-A).
The "On Plane Linear Force" (Centrifugal or Muscular Thrust via the Right Forearm) is applied "at right angles to the Longitudinal Center of Gravity" (1-L-11). The Force (Thrust) is indifferent to the configuration of the Primary Lever (In-Line or Out-of-Line given the Grip and the #3 Accumulator Angle). Except, of course, as that configuration ultimately determines the location of the Sweetspot.
I do believe BerntR is talking about the primary lever. The mass of the left arm is above plane through impact so pushing on the left hand would be like a "swing" (childs playground swing) if the forve is on plane of the shaft- 90 deg to the plane of the primary lever assembly. For now I will not even attempt that exercise.
Hybrid Mode
