why does homer recommend delayed hip action for his swingers basic pattern and not standard hip action? Surely he is not using the the preturned hip, which is an angle of approach enabler(hitting). Wouldn't the shoulders leading the hips fit more with a carry back hitters procedure? Whereas swingers with their swing away would seem more fitting to use standard hip action.
Ps Arnold Palmer and Tommy gainey probably two of the most incredible motions ever to be seen on the PGA tour highly underrated. I thought toms was a hitter who went on to end.
I got the 4th in my office...so I'm not sure if the patterns have changed based on whatever edition you may reference as far as the patterns in chapter 12....BUT....my assumption would be based on the patterns....the plane line is square square....the handpath is therefore more "straight away" for both patterns...I think delayed works better with the less depth in the geomeotric plane line delivery as opposed to an angle of approach delivery....angle of approach delivery is VERY DIFFRENT (and in my mind superior for Hitting) than a geometric plane line delivery....problem: Homer didn't leave us with a component list for an angle of approach procedure...it would certainly be interesting for somebody (maybe a certain tiny green somebody) to develop that listing....I think the components would necessarily be different...it would be an instructive undertaking for sure...
not sure if that answers your questions...BUT...remember Homer was very much not in favor of RECOMMENDING ANYTHING....so I imagine it was difficult for him to be "pigeon holed" into being restricted to the patterns in chapter 12.
I got the 4th in my office...so I'm not sure if the patterns have changed based on whatever edition you may reference as far as the patterns in chapter 12....BUT....my assumption would be based on the patterns....the plane line is square square....the handpath is therefore more "straight away" for both patterns...I think delayed works better with the less depth in the geomeotric plane line delivery as opposed to an angle of approach delivery....angle of approach delivery is VERY DIFFRENT (and in my mind superior for Hitting) than a geometric plane line delivery....problem: Homer didn't leave us with a component list for an angle of approach procedure...it would certainly be interesting for somebody (maybe a certain tiny green somebody) to develop that listing....I think the components would necessarily be different...it would be an instructive undertaking for sure...
not sure if that answers your questions...BUT...remember Homer was very much not in favor of RECOMMENDING ANYTHING....so I imagine it was difficult for him to be "pigeon holed" into being restricted to the patterns in chapter 12.
Homer listed delayed hip action for the swingers basic pattern in the 4th 5th 6th and 7th editions, Homer layed out the basic patterns as a starting point, a recommended example, there must be a reason why delayed hip action was chosen over standard. My opinion is that because delayed is lead by the shoulders in the backstroke this variation would tend to prevent overswinging as he says vs. A swing that is lead by the hips is probably more conducive to a maximum swing radius. When looking at the rest of the components for the swingers basic pattern at least in the 5th edition he uses flat left foot action and right anchor, two components that will limit the range of motion vs. Standard foot action and standard knee action which would or could produce maximum swing radius. So as you mince your way through G.O.L.F. You may be able to lengthen the swing but it is first recommended to use a swing with emphasis on a shorter swing radius, a more anchored swing.
Homer listed delayed hip action for the swingers basic pattern in the 4th 5th 6th and 7th editions, is the hitters basic pattern not a component list for the angle of approach procedure? Homer layer out the basic patterns as a starting point, a recommended example, there must be a reason why delayed hip action was chosen over standard
I don't have 6 and 7 here....but plane line is square square for both in minez.....AOA requires CLOSED...if my recollection is correct...would make sense to me anyhow...So have a look AOA in the 6th I believe REQUIRES the 10-5-E plane line stance line combo....
Not sure what edition and this was discussed out here in the day...there was a pattern that Homer had in one of the earlier editions I think 3 or 5 maybe that had the grip type as 10-2-D rather than 10-2-B....that pattern MAY HAVE BEEN the 10-5-E pattern...not sure though.
Yes, correct angle of approach uses closed stance line, ...that is why I deleted that sentence. Maybe it is not the overall length that is the important factor but rather the live tension that is more easily noticed with a restriction to a motion (which would be conducive to shorter overall swing radius), such is the case with flat left foot action, right anchor and delayed hip action. I think the key is that in 10-15-b he says "tighten the left side tension and set the stage perfectly for the hips to initiate the downstroke shoulder acceleration." Which is a very crucial moment and concept when swinging. 10-19-c drag loading wants you to launch the right shoulder down plane via the hips, and as homer states delayed hip action can set the stage perfectly for this.
Of course the application must still be there, but discussing this stuff I feel my swing has improved without even picking up a club, as homer said you can do a lot of learning in your armchair. This is the beauty of the yellow book. By simply reading and studying a subject that information is absorbed into the computer, upgrading your album instantly.
Yes, correct angle of approach uses closed stance line, ...that is why I deleted that sentence. Maybe it is not the overall length that is the important factor but rather the live tension that is more easily noticed with a restriction to a motion (which would be conducive to shorter overall swing radius), such is the case with flat left foot action, right anchor and delayed hip action. I think the key is that in 10-15-b he says "tighten the left side tension and set the stage perfectly for the hips to initiate the downstroke shoulder acceleration. Which is a very crucial moment and concept when swinging. 10-19-c drag loading wants you to launch the right shoulder down plane via the hips, and as homer states delayed hip action can set the stage perfectly for this.
Yes sir....BUT....(you are doing a nice job in your analysis by the way)...in the "ideal" of the "uncompensated stroke" (not fully defined by Homer)...the pattern(S)ideally would be constructed so the ALL components match the procedure and the selected delivery line and release type and plane angle....from there you start building your "battleship" as opposed to your canoe. So crap matches some crap don't...but to me it would all depend on the "biggies" and follow from there...for the uncompensated...but if you wanna "do anything" obviously you can tour pros can...but since we is trying to systematize...some things is better'n other thangs....at least as far as easy of producing ball flight with an economy of motion....could be why Homer was a self described HITTING afficionado...procedure dependent on superior alignments...
Homer listed delayed hip action for the swingers basic pattern in the 4th 5th 6th and 7th editions, Homer layed out the basic patterns as a starting point, a recommended example, there must be a reason why delayed hip action was chosen over standard. My opinion is that because delayed is lead by the shoulders in the backstroke this variation would tend to prevent overswinging as he says vs. A swing that is lead by the hips is probably more conducive to a maximum swing radius. When looking at the rest of the components for the swingers basic pattern at least in the 5th edition he uses flat left foot action and right anchor, two components that will limit the range of motion vs. Standard foot action and standard knee action which would or could produce maximum swing radius. So as you mince your way through G.O.L.F. You may be able to lengthen the swing but it is first recommended to use a swing with emphasis on a shorter swing radius, a more anchored swing.
I think you are sniffing it....HOWEVER....some of the precision in this analysis is lost in the PLANE ANGLE and procedure type..."length" is a nebulous concept in my mind....TSP hands go HIGH and less DEEP...Elbow plane hands go DEEP and less high....I depending on the amount the power package is "lifted"...you COULD HAVE a really "long" swing with high hands and MAJOR hip turn in some ways allowed by standard knee action...or you could have a "short" swing with major hip turn ala Ken Venturi...one component Homer didn't make complete allowances for (other than axis tilt) is deviations in the flexibility of the spine...
I got the 4th in my office...so I'm not sure if the patterns have changed based on whatever edition you may reference as far as the patterns in chapter 12....BUT....my assumption would be based on the patterns....the plane line is square square....the handpath is therefore more "straight away" for both patterns...I think delayed works better with the less depth in the geomeotric plane line delivery as opposed to an angle of approach delivery....angle of approach delivery is VERY DIFFRENT (and in my mind superior for Hitting) than a geometric plane line delivery....problem: Homer didn't leave us with a component list for an angle of approach procedure...it would certainly be interesting for somebody (maybe a certain tiny green somebody) to develop that listing....I think the components would necessarily be different...it would be an instructive undertaking for sure...
not sure if that answers your questions...BUT...remember Homer was very much not in favor of RECOMMENDING ANYTHING....so I imagine it was difficult for him to be "pigeon holed" into being restricted to the patterns in chapter 12.
Another in a long line of great post Bucket!
Didn't Homer Kelley just consider the patterns in Chapter 12 as a starting point and expect us ALL to take them in different directions? I am very fond of that approach. Keeps it very simple when starting out, and lots of OPTIONS as we become more advanced.…
Kevin
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I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
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