Going back to the original thesis of this thread.
If a single plane, with or without the aiming point concept, is used. And, this plane is well above the elbow plane. Does the same problem occur? If not why not?
hb
Last edited by HungryBear : 05-16-2012 at 11:49 AM.
Going back to the original thesis of this thread.
If a single plane, with or without the aiming point concept, is used. And, this plane is well above the elbow plane. Does the same problem occur? If not why not?
hb
Great question HB.
Couple of thoughts :
In Homers single plane downswing he presented what he termed the "high elbow plane" . An elbow plane that lined up with a Turned Shoulder Plane allowing for on plane Right Shoulder support to the on plane Power Package in Startdown and an On Plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge through the ball. Not very common in the field I know.
Some time ago on this forum Yoda pointed out that the Aiming Point is represented in the photos of 10-19 through to 10-23 by a dark shadowy like arrow. An arrow perhaps made of black card or tape by Homer and placed flat to the plane in the photos . Its a straight line cutting vertically across the face of the plane of the plane board that whats her name is standing in. What the heck was her name again? She's still alive eh! Living in Hawaii.
Anywho if you flip along through the pics the arrow can be seen more in some photos than others but I believe this is due more to Homers exposure than his intentions. I even see it , if faintly, in Circle Path 10-23-E #2. Now go to the photos accompanying 10-23-A , Straight Line Hand Path (associated with zero shift IMO) and 10-23- D Angled hand path (associated with a shift down to the (true) Elbow Plane). Notice how the arrow which is clearly visible in these photos has been moved!! Moved from Top in A , to a position at the top of the straight line path on the Elbow Plane in B. There being a "vertical drop" of the hands in B which would be better seen from a down the line perspective but is shown as a angled line in that photo from caddy view.
So, Im thinking the thrust of the Aiming Point Procedure commences once you have reached the top of the impact plane angle. Makes sense to me you wouldn't want to thrust at the aiming point and drop vertically at the same time. Plane shifters have to wait a little longer!
My apologies for not answering your question more directly .
There being a "vertical drop" of the hands in B which would be better seen from a down the line perspective but is shown as a angled line in that photo from caddy view.
So, Im thinking the thrust of the Aiming Point Procedure commences once you have reached the top of the impact plane angle. Makes sense to me you wouldn't want to thrust at the aiming point and drop vertically at the same time. Plane shifters have to wait a little longer!
.
And yet again, pg 83:
"At the top of the Backstroke--even at the End(10-21-C)--mentally construct a line from the #3 Pressure Point to the Aiming Point."
which precludes any waiting and preempts the use of the Aiming Point concept in any DS with a plane shift which requires a vertical hand drop at a point off the Plane Line. Use of a plane shift on the DS takes the player close, but not entirely into the dark shadows of Pivot Controlled Hands.
"At the top of the Backstroke--even at the End(10-21-C)--mentally construct a line from the #3 Pressure Point to the Aiming Point."
which precludes any waiting and preempts the use of the Aiming Point concept in any DS with a plane shift which requires a vertical hand drop at a point off the Plane Line. Use of a plane shift on the DS takes the player close, but not entirely into the dark shadows of Pivot Controlled Hands.
Re the sections Ive highlighted above in bold type:
Thats Homer for you ... up to his old tricks with words. But "mentally constructing" is not one and the same as actually Thrusting from End . See photo 10-23-C and read the accompanying text. The hands retrace the Top Arc from End to the Top of the straight line delivery path .... a place from which the #3 is then thrusted straight line towards the aiming point . See the dark shadowy arrow Homer mounted to the face of the plane and how it aligns to the straight line delivery path not to where the hands are at End.
Per 12-3. "Aiming Point -Lag" is not mentioned until Downstroke Section 8 (the period of hand/ arm acceleration). No mention of it Section 7 Startdown (the period of right Shoulder Acceleration). Could it be implied in Section 6 Top , Delivery Line Prep? Maybe. Making the "mentally constructing" a form of prep from Top perhaps. Yoda'd know for sure.
Re the latter bit Ive bolded. See 10-23-B where Homer describes the Angled Line associated with a shift back to the elbow plane. See the photo that goes along with it ....it includes the shadowy black arrow representing the Aiming Point. Its faint but its there. Homer obviously thought you could use the Aiming Point Procedure with a Plane Shift.
Further down in the very same paragraph from page 83 which you quoted , Homer describes employing the Aiming Point Procedure even when using Circle Path.
Quote:
Three procedures are available to compensate for this:
1. move the Aiming Point forward or aft of the established Ball location. This Aiming Point procedure seems more easily acquired if introduced as a Feel. At the top of the Backstroke – even at End (10-21-C) – mental construct a line form the #3 Pressure Point to the Aiming Point. Let a careful Downstroke direct the thrust precisely along this line. Hitting or Swinging, direct the #3 Pressure Point strongly downward per 1-L-9, 1-L-10, 2-J-3 and 6-C-2-A to insure the “Downward” element of Three Dimensional Impact (2-C-0). That is – TRY TO DRIVE THE BALL INTO THE GROUND, NOT INTO THE AIR. If you don’t KNOW that you hit down, assume that you didn’t. The Hands must ALWAYS take one of the Delivery Paths (10-23) but even with the Circle Path, the Thrust is still a straight-line EFFORT toward the Aiming Point. Even “Tracing” (5-0) must not disrupt it.
All analogies come up short but if I may . Imagine a bicycle sitting upside down with its tires in the air , friction free for spinning. To spin the wheel you could place your hand on a spoke at say 1 o'clock and thrust straight line towards 6 o'clock on the dial thereby spinning the wheel. If your hand were to stay attached to the spoke it would not travel the same straight line. In golf it could travel a straightish line though I would venture. There being no spoke to mechanically ensure a circular hand path.
I dunno. Im just a dumb golfer trying to figure out how Yoda hits the ball so nicely for a 600 year old guy. He loves the Aiming Point Procedure , that I know for sure. When I first saw him hitting balls in person I was immediately struck by his Down. I couldn't really see it but I sensed it . Blammo. Aiming Point sure helps in that endeavour.
I looked at a "bunch" of plane board swings on Youtube and without exception they were problematic. No shoulder tilt, high right shoulder pivot, arms swings, no rhythm all this required to keep the shaft on the plane board. Got any good examples of a NO Shift swing that is true No shift?
Where does HK relate a DS plane shift to "Pivot Controlled Hands"?
hb
He doesn't say that. I believe that without an Aiming Point on or near the ball, you are using Pivot Control. But, because of 10-23-B, it's clear that HK is saying you can get to the elbow plane vertically with PP #3 and still use an Aiming Point.
But "mentally constructing" is not one and the same as actually Thrusting from End .
I would note that in the text:
"At the top of the Backstroke – even at End (10-21-C) – mental construct a line form the #3 Pressure Point to the Aiming Point."
he specifically says "top", not "Top", which makes me think the mental straight line construction AND the thrust is at the top, even if it's the End, and not the Top. After all, you hardly have time to mentally construct anything once the DS is under way. Also, thrusting from the End would deflect the straight line effort to start from the Top automatically.
HOWEVER, you are absolutely right about plane shifts and the Aiming Point, because of the text on pg 202, in 10-23-B. Angled Line:
"From the Top-of-the-Straight-Line hand position the Hands take a nearly vertical path to the Plane of the Elbow Angle before they start their drive directly at and through the Aiming Point (2-J-3)."
"At the top of the Backstroke – even at End (10-21-C) – mental construct a line form the #3 Pressure Point to the Aiming Point."
he specifically says "top", not "Top", which makes me think the mental straight line construction AND the thrust is at the top, even if it's the End, and not the Top. After all, you hardly have time to mentally construct anything once the DS is under way. Also, thrusting from the End would deflect the straight line effort to start from the Top automatically.
Thanks Joe
Thing is Homer never showed a photo of the straight line hand path beginning at End. End being anything above Top , right shoulder high. Some guys have their hands way up over top of the their head at End. For them to get back to Top a place from which they can drive straight line they have to retrace the top arc. In so doing their hands move BACKWARDS (not forwards) Down and Out . From Top however they move FORWARDS DOWN AND OUT. Thats a critical difference , perhaps accounting for why Homer depicted straight line Hand Paths as commencing from Top at the highest.
To thrust straight line from an End where your hands are above your head say would be very cramped assuming a straight line hand path . You'd have to bend your left arm there by losing radius width. It'd have a super steep angle of attack.
Aiming Point Procedure , Thrust is a Right Arm Action . Hitting or Swinging , Actively or Passively the Right Arm is always Driving. Put another way to my mind, the right arms motion swinging or action hitting is very much a throwing like motion . Where does it throw towards , thrust towards ? The Aiming Point. This thrusting drives the circular orbit of the club head.
Quote:
6-C-2-A THE ESSENCE of Clubhead Lag technique is that it is always both Aiming AND Thrust. Passive – it is primarily Aiming the Lag Pressure. Active – it is the primarily Thrusting the Lag Pressure Point. The Orbiting Clubhead does not seek out the Ball – it seeks out the Delivery Line. But never directly – only via the Right Forearm and the #3 Pressure Point per 2-F, 5-0 and 7-3. It is guided along that Line to the Both Arms Straight configuration by the straight line thrust of the #3 Pressure Point toward the Angle of Approach quadrant of the Ball – or Aiming Point – per 1-F, 1-L-9/10, 2-J-3 and 6-E-2.
Quote:
Summing up the Right Arm action - it is always a straight line effort and/or motion and normally is strictly Clubhead Control. In the meantime the Flat Left Wrist (Clubface Control) under every condition or situation is concerned only with arriving at Impact, Vertical to the ground in the process of executing the selected Hinge Action. So, per 1-F the Hands are correlated but independent of every other factor." Practice every phase, over and over until mastered.
Thing is Homer never showed a photo of the straight line hand path beginning at End. End being anything above Top , right shoulder high. Some guys have their hands way up over top of the their head at End. For them to get back to Top a place from which they can drive straight line they have to retrace the top arc. In so doing their hands move BACKWARDS (not forwards) Down and Out . From Top however they move FORWARDS DOWN AND OUT. Thats a critical difference , perhaps accounting for why Homer depicted straight line Hand Paths as commencing from Top at the highest.
To thrust straight line from an End where your hands are above your head say would be very cramped assuming a straight line hand path . You'd have to bend your left arm there by losing radius width. It'd have a super steep angle of attack.
Aiming Point Procedure , Thrust is a Right Arm Action . Hitting or Swinging , Actively or Passively the Right Arm is always Driving. Put another way to my mind, the right arms motion swinging or action hitting is very much a throwing like motion . Where does it throw towards , thrust towards ? The Aiming Point. This thrusting drives the circular orbit of the club head.
Thank you, OB, for making a lot of good points, which have convinced me that my understanding of Aiming Point is apparently limited to a Swing with top = Top and a single plane DS!
The only extra I would add to your AP procedure is that I want to make sure the downward thrust is from the shoulder ONLY - no adding, and feel like my passive arms are being pulled out of the shoulder sockets by the pivot thrust.
Hybrid Mode
