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CF in hitting.

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  #1  
Old 08-01-2012, 05:34 PM
O.B.Left O.B.Left is offline
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here we go again.
Originally Posted by Bumpy View Post
7-19 ....The loading procedure determines the physics.......


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Here's the rest of it.

Quote:

7-19 LAG LOADING This category recognizes the over-all control by the Clubhead Lag Pressure Point (6-C-2) and that manipulation of its Loading Procedure determines the Physics of both Hitting and Swinging (Preface). Study 6-H-0, 7-3 and 7-20.
He said "determines the physics of both hitting" and swinging he didn't say defines the difference between the two! Hitting is pushing and swinging is pulling thats the basic definition. If you could drive load right, arm throw and get your right elbow in front of the hands you'd be pulling the power package, swinging. You can push the door closed or pull the door closed.... its dependent upon which side of the door is your elbow on.

I am in complete agreement in that you must Load the Lag Pressure Point that you will employ in the Throw. Absolutely. Don't mix em up and compensate on the way down. And that the physics of the throw out action changes with the location of the lag pressure point. Of which there is a range of about 90 degrees on the handle top to aft, or depending on what part of the right forefinger attaches , from under the first knuckle at the base of the right index finger to the first joint on the forefinger. (rotated to non rotated lag pressure point).

Drag Loading classically employs the Rotated Lag Pressure Point which goes best with a Wrist Throw, Sequenced Release. Drive classically , the first joint on the index finger (non rotated) Lag Pressure Point which goes best with a Right ARm Throw , Simu Release, thrust agains the #1pp on the aft of the shaft. But should the Right Elbow for the Hitter becomes more Pitchy (move closer to the other side of the door as the arm motion becomes more like a throwing motion rather than an inline push) the location of the Lag Pressure Point changes as does the physics of his Release.

The Hitter who loads the Rotated Lag Pressure Point during Drag Loading needs to rotate it back prior to Release assuming he's going to thrust against the #1 on the aft of the shaft. Homer didn't like this method but it exists in the wild and on TV.
As such you will see most TGM instructors stick to Drive Loading vs Drag Loading , Hitting vs Swinging in their videos . But there is Drag Loading Hitting believe me.

Think of 12-1 and 12-2 as starting places , maybe places to stay even . But places with unique identities . Best to start there , master them before moving on. And so Drive is associated with Hitting . An extreme along the spectrum . But it doesn't define Hitting!!!!!!
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  #2  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:18 PM
Bumpy Bumpy is offline
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Originally Posted by O.B.Left View Post
Here's the rest of it.



He said "determines the physics of both hitting" and swinging he didn't say defines the difference between the two! Hitting is pushing and swinging is pulling thats the basic definition. If you could drive load right, arm throw and get your right elbow in front of the hands you'd be pulling the power package, swinging. You can push the door closed or pull the door closed.... its dependent upon which side of the door is your elbow on.

I am in complete agreement in that you must Load the Lag Pressure Point that you will employ in the Throw. Absolutely. Don't mix em up and compensate on the way down. And that the physics of the throw out action changes with the location of the lag pressure point. Of which there is a range of about 90 degrees on the handle top to aft, or depending on what part of the right forefinger attaches , from under the first knuckle at the base of the right index finger to the first joint on the forefinger. (rotated to non rotated lag pressure point).

Drag Loading classically employs the Rotated Lag Pressure Point which goes best with a Wrist Throw, Sequenced Release. Drive classically , the first joint on the index finger (non rotated) Lag Pressure Point which goes best with a Right ARm Throw , Simu Release, thrust agains the #1pp on the aft of the shaft. But should the Right Elbow for the Hitter becomes more Pitchy (move closer to the other side of the door as the arm motion becomes more like a throwing motion rather than an inline push) the location of the Lag Pressure Point changes as does the physics of his Release.

The Hitter who loads the Rotated Lag Pressure Point during Drag Loading needs to rotate it back prior to Release assuming he's going to thrust against the #1 on the aft of the shaft. Homer didn't like this method but it exists in the wild and on TV.
As such you will see most TGM instructors stick to Drive Loading vs Drag Loading , Hitting vs Swinging in their videos . But there is Drag Loading Hitting believe me.

Think of 12-1 and 12-2 as starting places , maybe places to stay even . But places with unique identities . Best to start there , master them before moving on. And so Drive is associated with Hitting . An extreme along the spectrum . But it doesn't define Hitting!!!!!!
Good to know.

Bumpy

Last edited by Bumpy : 08-02-2012 at 09:55 AM.
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  #3  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:44 PM
O.B.Left O.B.Left is offline
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Maybe some of us are talking about the cf present in the pivot Zone 1 ( necessary for cf throw off of the left arm) while some others are talking about the cf at the Primary Lever Zone 2. CF being present in different zones. A classic 3 B Hitter executing Acquired Motion with Pivot Motion only as opposed to Pivot Work (active pulling) would have little or zero Zone 1 cf, but still have cf in his primary lever zone 2 the arms. cf the force that is . He won't use it as a release trigger.

I dunno. Only Homer could get my head hurting like this. Everything is turning , spinning , throwing out , I'm gonna throw up pretty soon.
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  #4  
Old 08-01-2012, 07:02 PM
HungryBear HungryBear is offline
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Kiss
Let's keep it simple;
1-L - 9. Regardless of how the Lever Assembly is driven, it moves in a circle.

HB
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2012, 01:16 PM
MizunoJoe MizunoJoe is offline
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Originally Posted by HungryBear View Post
Let's keep it simple;
1-L - 9. Regardless of how the Lever Assembly is driven, it moves in a circle.

HB
So the topic has now morphed into "Circles in Hitting" ???
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  #6  
Old 08-02-2012, 01:35 PM
HungryBear HungryBear is offline
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the answer is YES
Originally Posted by MizunoJoe View Post
So the topic has now morphed into "Circles in Hitting" ???
I am providing a direct quote:

Chapter #1, Section L -The Machine Concept #9 of the 21 machine requirements.

OR
Yes. from the dynamics of circlular motin/angular motion we get cf


HB

Last edited by HungryBear : 08-02-2012 at 01:37 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-02-2012, 01:46 PM
MizunoJoe MizunoJoe is offline
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Originally Posted by HungryBear View Post
I am providing a direct quote:

Chapter #1, Section L -The Machine Concept #9 of the 21 machine requirements.

OR
Yes. from the dynamics of circlular motin/angular motion we get cf


HB
Does that cf add power over and above that from the right triceps in Hitting?
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  #8  
Old 08-02-2012, 04:38 PM
MizunoJoe MizunoJoe is offline
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Originally Posted by HungryBear View Post
I am providing a direct quote:

Chapter #1, Section L -The Machine Concept #9 of the 21 machine requirements.

OR
Yes. from the dynamics of circlular motin/angular motion we get cf


HB
OK then, does that cf add club head speed over and above that provided by the right triceps in Hitting?
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  #9  
Old 08-02-2012, 01:42 PM
MizunoJoe MizunoJoe is offline
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Originally Posted by O.B.Left View Post
Maybe some of us are talking about the cf present in the pivot Zone 1 ( necessary for cf throw off of the left arm) while some others are talking about the cf at the Primary Lever Zone 2. CF being present in different zones. A classic 3 B Hitter executing Acquired Motion with Pivot Motion only as opposed to Pivot Work (active pulling) would have little or zero Zone 1 cf, but still have cf in his primary lever zone 2 the arms. cf the force that is . He won't use it as a release trigger.
The original poster's topic was "CF in Hitting". The only reasonable interpretation of that is "The use of CF in Hitting", not the existential presence of CF. Some are saying that because the left arm moves in a circle, there is CF, and most of those are saying that it's preempted by muscle, but no one has come right out and said that CF manifests itself in increased club head power over and above that from the right triceps. And they'd better not, because that is tantamount to saying that Hitting has a #4 PA, and therefore 12-1-0, Component 4 - Triple barrel(1/2/3) is incorrect.
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