But, as I read what U say, U are saying it take 2 wedges because the left is turning and rolling.
I do no necessarily agree with your arguement, I am just point it out.
This is neither a question or problem for me because I am comfortable with the dynamics as understood.
I will put forward another arguement- that the use of left hand alone tends to bend the plane by throwing the clubhead around the left hand , bending the plane to close the clubface and use of the right arm only tends to throw the clubhead out to right field because there is no checkrein.
HB
I agree with HB here, never use the left hand "alone " to manipulate a Flail Action or a Hinge ACtion for that matter . Hinge Action is defined by the Left Hands alignment to one of the three basic planes but its not done by the Left Hand!! The entire Primary Lever moves as a unit. Everybody gets this wrong at first, some never move on . Elk , some GSED's talk about full rolls , half rolls of the left hand etc but thats not quite right , close but not correct .
Flail Action isnt what it seems at first either!!! Its not loosy goosy rubber wristed kids stuff in any way. Although it appears to be very handsy, it isn't. No Sir.
TAke for instance , what Lynn calls Startup Swivel: It is actually powered by the momentum created from his Lagging Takeaway in his swing. So even there the left hand is not turning to plane on its own, or under its own power. You have options here of course , Single Wrist Action , Double . Lagging Takeaway , Carry Back. But since we have considered the left side Flail Action I thought Id throw this out.
I got hooked on holding off release , lynn taught me how to free wheel and release . If you're directionally challenged when learning the on plane flail action you havent learned how to release and maintain Rhythm or the alignments of the Primary Lever or the Left Arm Flying Wedge or or .. Dont be so quick to adopt a blocked release, learn the golfers Flail with alignments and structure. When you get it right you will love it.
It will be on plane on both sides of the ball! Swoosh. Swoosh. You can hear it as the face rolls over like Hogans little baseball bat . Swooosh. There's power there, Transfer Power. Unblocked Transfer Power if you will. Number 3 angle with its added clubhead Travel is powerful in its own right too. And thats how it feels .... feels i said. From top you must prepare to do this ... "Delivery LIne , ROLL prep".
The entire Primary Lever moves as a unit. Everybody gets this wrong at first, some never move on . Elk , some GSED's talk about full rolls , half rolls of the left hand etc but thats not quite right , close but not correct .
It will be on plane on both sides of the ball! Swoosh. Swoosh. You can hear it as the face rolls over like Hogans little baseball bat . Swooosh. There's power there, Transfer Power. Unblocked Transfer Power if you will. Number 3 angle and its added clubhead Travel are powerful in their own right too.
I second this (except for the little baseball bat ). Instead of focusing on the left wrist roll, they should be talking about using the back muscles and lats to roll the wedges.
I second this (except for the little baseball bat ). Instead of focusing on the left wrist roll, they should be talking about using the back muscles and lats to roll the wedges.
Hah. That little baseball bat thing , aka "fastest move in golf" its not a left wrist only thing either. Though it might look like it is . Left wrist only could break the left wrist , loss of Rhythm resulting . Loss of Left Arm Flying Wedge , loss of Radius length (swinging from the hands) , therefor loss of mass, to say nothing of structure , club face .
The more I get into Homers Rhythm , capital R... the more I think its responsible for the bad shots we see on tv by the best in the game. Its that important I believe. I dunno. But you can still have a common speak "full release" and maintain Rhythm. Thats when the good ball striker becomes a great ball striker perhaps. I know this will sound old fashioned to some. That swinging left with what we call angled thing is sweeping the nation like the British invasion.
Some day somebody is going to invent a Rhythm drill that will become so popular that itll be seen on every practice tee the world over. Some day.... eh, Ted? Can you copyright a drill? Can you buy shares in a golf drill? Golf drill futures?
I agree with HB here, never use the left hand "alone " to manipulate a Flail Action or a Hinge Action for that matter . Hinge Action is defined by the Left Hands alignment to one of the three basic planes but its not done by the Left Hand!! The entire Primary Lever moves as a unit. Everybody gets this wrong at first, some never move on . Elk , some GSED's talk about full rolls , half rolls of the left hand etc but that's not quite right , close but not correct .
Quote:
Ball Behavior (p. 100)
The Hinges are actually “mounted” at the Left Shoulder but the real control comes with moving or holding the Left Wrist in the positions called for by the respective Hinge arrangements. The Hinge Action Control is required only from Impact to the end of the Follow-through. Except, of course, when the Stroke Pattern Wrist Action dictates otherwise.
The Left Wrist is controlled by the On Plane Right Forearm Wedge and its Angle of Approach while moving toward Low-Point.
The Left Wrist is controlled by the On Plane Right Forearm Wedge and its Angle of Approach while moving toward Low-Point.
You sound so resolute . Must it always be so? Does one have to manipulate the Right Forearm Flying Wedge to Roll the entire Primary Lever ? I don't when left side Flailing. But I do when swinging my Right Side. Not talking Right Arm Swinging ... I still have the left shoulder as the centre when doing this. (Right Arm Swing being defined by having the Right Elbow as the centre of the Radius)
I do think that as goes one Wedge so must the other to maintain their 90 degree or smaller relationship.
You sound so resolute . Must it always be so? Does one have to manipulate the Right Forearm Flying Wedge to Roll the entire Primary Lever ? I don't when left side Flailing. But I do when swinging my Right Side. Not talking Right Arm Swinging ... I still have the left shoulder as the centre when doing this. (Right Arm Swing being defined by having the Right Elbow as the centre of the Radius)
I do think that as goes one Wedge so must the other to maintain their 90 degree or smaller relationship.
No manipulation of the Right Forearm. Simply keep it On Plane. That's all.
LOL. 24 components. Mix em up any way you want. The Right and Left Wedges are not components.
Quote:
the Left Arm is ALWAYS SWINGING and the Right Forearm is ALWAYS DRIVING.
No manipulation of the Right Forearm. Simply keep it On Plane. That's all.
LOL. 24 components. Mix em up any way you want. The Right and Left Wedges are not components.
When I turn my back hip left, I feel such a sensation of driving power in my right forearm and in my # 3 PP that it feels more powerfully like I am driving down plane. But I know I am pulling with the front of my back hip and quiet wedges! So cool!
ICT
__________________
HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
You sound so resolute . Must it always be so? Does one have to manipulate the Right Forearm Flying Wedge to Roll the entire Primary Lever ? I don't when left side Flailing. But I do when swinging my Right Side. Not talking Right Arm Swinging ... I still have the left shoulder as the centre when doing this. (Right Arm Swing being defined by having the Right Elbow as the centre of the Radius)
I do think that as goes one Wedge so must the other to maintain their 90 degree or smaller relationship.
Could not help myself after U added the "smaller"- now that I have called attention to it I will leave it alone.
Let me start with my moving power package parts. There are not that many.
Left arm, wrist and hand- moves at the shoulder only as allowed by the installed hinge and 90 deg pin if dual action is required, The left wrist can cock and uncock only vertical to the hinge. There is no other roll or turn in the left other than a swivel of the arm to plane near top of backswing.
Right arm and hand- The right shoulder has a ball joint at the shoulder, the right elbow can fold and unfold , that is it. the right wrist is fixed and bent, it does not cock or roll.
Thats it, work with those capable movement and move the shoulders and axis to get what u need.
Whe swinging this ENTIRE assembly is Pulled then released as far into follow through as practical.
The center of rotation is my spine.
The right arm, elbow, forearm, hand assembly is thrown into impact with care that the right wedge not just the club is "THROWN" down the plane with a SLAP by the right hand.
Get the RHYTHM right
Get Your BALANCE perfect
Keep your center of rotation (we will call it your "HEAD") stable
Could not help myself after U added the "smaller"- now that I have called attention to it I will leave it alone.
Let me start with my moving power package parts. There are not that many.
Left arm, wrist and hand- moves at the shoulder only as allowed by the installed hinge and 90 deg pin if dual action is required, The left wrist can cock and uncock only vertical to the hinge. There is no other roll or turn in the left other than a swivel of the arm to plane near top of backswing.
Right arm and hand- The right shoulder has a ball joint at the shoulder, the right elbow can fold and unfold , that is it. the right wrist is fixed and bent, it does not cock or roll.
Thats it, work with those capable movement and move the shoulders and axis to get what u need.
Whe swinging this ENTIRE assembly is Pulled then released as far into follow through as practical.
The center of rotation is my spine.
The right arm, elbow, forearm, hand assembly is thrown into impact with care that the right wedge not just the club is "THROWN" down the plane with a SLAP by the right hand.
Get the RHYTHM right
Get Your BALANCE perfect
Keep your center of rotation (we will call it your "HEAD") stable
In summary, thats how it works for me.
HB
HB, re smaller: One word can imply quite a bit and save this idiot a lot of writing time.
IMO, the book assumes 90 degrees for clarity , brevity reasons in that it assumes one grip type . But Homer does define other grip types and their implications to wrist action. Hence my "smaller" . I personally have the wedges at about 90 degrees , (never measured em) but when writing I didnt want to exclude the stronger Left Hand Grip dudes with their (approaching) Single Wrist Action. Some have Turned their Left Hand all the way to Plane in their grip , at Fix even. IMO these stronger left hand grip types guys do not have their wedges at 90 degrees. But Im open for ideas on this.
Also if I may enter the Lab for a moment, even with a more neutral grip in common golf speak there is something else to consider: namely the effect on the nature of the left hand grip and wrist action and the relationship of the two wedges to each other, in degrees if you must , of positioning the ball back in the stance.
Lemme explain what Im thinking. We grip the club with the club in its FIX position. Not at low point or where ever . Now for balls played back in the stance , prior to forming the grip, the clubhead moves back along the Arc of Approach. AND THE HANDS MOVE BACK ALONG THEIR THREE DIMENSIONAL PATH TOO . If only slightly . As the left hand moves back , in, up it must Turn slightly. This is all prior to forming the grip. You dont form the grip at low point fix or some arbitrary place and then take the hands and clubhead back to where the ball actuallly is . You dont do this and then ROLL THE LEFT HAND AND GRIP WITH THE GRIP ALREADY FORMED TO SQUARE THE FACE TO THE TARGET . Some people do this , the
grip is precision alignment. Which demands precision. You dont form your grip vis a vis some lines on the rubber BTW arent those formed grip things are actually only correct for one ball position? Theoretically.
If you subscribe to this turning of the left hand grip, minute though it is ,as the ball placement moves back in the stance, then the wedges are not at 90 degrees to each other anymore and the Hand Action becomes more , er approaches a more Single Actiony action. I think. Please discuss. Mike O . whats your 20? Over. That is to say there is less turning required to get the left hand on plane , less Startup Swivel if you will for the shorter sticks , for balls played back of Straight Away.
Add Homer's Grip Rotation into this business and it would make for a nice little thread on how to adjust your machine for specific ball response . This relates to yodas recent post about Plane Line Rotation as (over) reco'd by some Trackman guys. Ive got a buddy who reps Flightscope we're supposed to get together and talk about all this. He's TGM literate so itll be interesting. Maybe Im making some wrong assumptions. I dunno. Im fascinated by the data these guys are looking at and the different ways to adjust the machine or dynamically change the path .
This is something we've never really gotten into . Homers ball flight stuff. Its all over the place in the book . What else is new you you say? Itd be nice to pull it together in a thread . Bucket started to but got jumped by a angry mob of visitors. Hopefully times have changed and those guys have gotten bored with us.
"And ...... loving it". "Max the cone of silence hasnt worked in three weeks". Happy Holidays LBG.
........ I personally have the wedges at about 90 degrees , (never measured em) but when writing I didnt want to exclude the stronger Left Hand Grip dudes with their (approaching) Single Wrist Action. Some have Turned their Left Hand all the way to Plane in their grip , at Fix and IMO do not have their wedges at 90 degrees therefor. ..........
This is such a great post I can't resist commenting but I didn't want to copy the entire post because there is a limit to storage space.
Just so we agree, because the Terms are really confusing. "Turn and Roll" describe the Primary Lever, using a Vertical Left Wrist, moving away from (backstroke) or toward (forward) Low-Point. So Turning is the Primary Lever moving "Away" and the Clubface "Opens" and Rolling is moving toward Low-Point and the Clubface "Closes". For the life of me, I have no idea why HK would use these terms. Swiveling occurs when the Clubface (Left Wrist) changes from Vertical to On-Plane and back to Vertical again.
90 Degree Wedges. If your Left Wrist is Vertical at Low-Point and your Right Forearm Wedge is On-Plane, then the Wedges are at 90 degrees.
Here's where we differ; I think. My opinion is that the Wedges should remain at 90 degrees regardless of Ball Location (its ok if they're not if you prefer it that way). If you play the ball back 6 inches, then, at Impact, the Primary Lever will be Closed but Rolling. It will also be Swiveled and will be Swiveling toward Vertical which it will be when it arrives at Low Point. For the Clubface to be square to the Angle of Approach at Impact, you will need to rotate the grip of the club in your Hands. So at Impact, the Hands will be moving exactly as they would (but on a steeper plane) if the Impact were going to be at Low-Point.
I need to make a "Fine Point". It's pretty advanced but I think everyone can handle it and not lose sleep tonight. "Swiveling" and "Turn and Roll" are not opposites nor are they related. "Turn and Roll" is one concept, separate. "Swiveling and "Hinging" are related. They are Two different ways that the Clubface moves through the impact interval. Hitters Only Hinge. Swingers use a Hinge and Swivel but its not a Hand Swivel. Swingers use a "Release Swivel" whereby as the Hands move down Plane during the Pulley, the Clubface moves from On Plane to Vertical at Low Point. This Swivel is compatible with Hinging whereas Hand Swivels are not.
). Instead of focusing on the left wrist roll, they should be talking about using the back muscles and lats to roll the wedges.
Hybrid Mode
