Arc of Approach

[O.B.Left]

Be weary of advice from club manufacturers. Think of irons as down and drivers as level. You are not a long drive guy. On the golf course, straight is long.

Henny Great stuff.

How do the guys on tour adjust for an into the wind drive?

Some fitters would have us still hit up on it, the reasoning being the higher launch and the reduced spin into the wind.

Im old school and tee it slightly lower into the wind but am wondering about the extra spin this would add into the wind.

Thanks
ob

[yodeli]

Everything I have read however regarding the driver says that the Arc of Approach should be positive, that being, hitting on the up stroke to minimize spin and therefore increase distance.
Wali

Indeed, the data provided by Launch monitors and club manufacturers is to take into account.

However, the concept of hitting up with the driver is misleading the average golfer who understands it as an encouragement to scoop under the ball with the driver in an attempt to lift the ball in the air...

But if you know your lessons and mix to your advantage:

• ball position relative to low point,
• the aiming point concept,
• the launch monitor's data,

you should end up with the ball positioned an inch up plane after low point and touch the ball on your clubhead's up travel.

Now, it is vital that you must not forget to direct your thrust DOWN even AFTER LOW POINT.
Low point is not the end of the DOWN because you should still have some right arm to extend untill the end of the follow through (both arms straight).

This is the only way to stay TGM correct (geometrically correct) and use the launch monitor's data to your advantage.

[O.B.Left]

Indeed, the data provided by Launch monitors and club manufacturers is to take into account.

However, the concept of hitting up with the driver is misleading the average golfer who understands it as an encouragement to scoop under the ball with the driver in an attempt to lift the ball in the air...

But if you know your lessons and mix to your advantage:

• ball position relative to low point,
• the aiming point concept,
• the launch monitor's data,

you should end up with the ball positioned an inch up plane after low point and touch the ball on your clubhead's up travel.

Now, it is vital that you must not forget to direct your thrust DOWN even AFTER LOW POINT.
Low point is not the end of the DOWN because you should still have some right arm to extend untill the end of the follow through (both arms straight).

This is the only way to stay TGM correct (geometrically correct) and use the launch monitor's data to your advantage.

Yodeli your on fire and lighting up the whole board, keep going while your hot.

So the thrust, as directed through the pressure points 1,2,3 (4 being up in the arm/chest) is On Plane, Forward, Down, Out and towards the plane line after impact, after low point and until.......................when? Both arms straight? The club switches ends? The club points at the extension of the plane line on the horizon line?

Or am I getting mixed up, thrust being a straight line?

ob

[yodeli]

Henny Great stuff.

How do the guys on tour adjust for an into the wind drive?

Some fitters would have us still hit up on it, the reasoning being the higher launch and the reduced spin into the wind.

Im old school and tee it slightly lower into the wind but am wondering about the extra spin this would add into the wind.

Thanks
ob

I think that distance is less a concern into the wind than the imperative to stay on the fairway...
In such a case, launch monitor's data is useless because no guy on tour will risk seing the ball catch the wind and go anywhere.

A few months ago I saw Villegas hit low powerfull boring drives with lotsa draw.

I think that the "boring lotsa draw" is very important because the spin energy is not say 100% backspin but rather 50% backspin/50% sidespin.

100% backspin straight shot risks the ball to "lift" up (venturi effect) against the wind.
The 50%back/50%side directs the venturi effect sideways and the ball won't climb in the air where it risks to meet even stronger wind resistance.
Ice on the cake, the "lotsa draw" will help regain yardage on the fairway roll.

So, my bet would be a ball back, closed face, closed stance setup to execute a powerfull low boring shot with lotsa draw and lots a (side)spin!

[yodeli]

Yodeli your on fire and lighting up the whole board, keep going while your hot.

So the thrust, as directed through the pressure points 1,2,3 (4 being up in the arm/chest) is On Plane, Forward, Down, Out and towards the plane line after impact, after low point and until.......................when? Both arms straight? The club switches ends? The club points at the extension of the plane line on the horizon line?

Or am I getting mixed up, thrust being a straight line?
ob

You're right OB, I'm boilling like termonuclear lava !
that's because I'm pasionnate about Golf and happy to help back others as they did with me on Lynn's wonderfull site!

Back to your question:
1-L-15: The club starts up and in after low point but the thrust continues Down Plane during the Follow-Through

6-C-2-A "...the Accumulators will not be released by this action until the Right Elbow can straighten (ie: both arms straight, the end of the follow through). Even then the Clubhead Lag is still maintained -- it has NO Release point."

Also, check this video (Hitting vs Swinging) on the Gallery and listen what Lynn says starting at 1:14.
This should answer your question about when the swich ends.

The club points at the extension of the plane line on the horizon line?

Or am I getting mixed up, thrust being a straight line?
ob

The direction of your Thrust and the direction your shaft is pointing are two separate things.
The more important is to put you mind on directing your thrust (ie: where is my PP#3 travelling?).
Your clubshaft/clubhead will follow all the time!
However, it is interesting to monitor where the clubshaft points at to check if the clubshaft lies on plane... (if not, it tells you that you're not moving PP#3 on the right track...... try again, look, look, look!)

As a result, the clubshaft should always points at the base of the plane line (either the clubhead or the but of the grip) to the horizon line.
Remember that after both arms straight, your left arm will swivel, allowing the shaft to "replane", the but end of the grip pointing now at the base of the plane.

But all this is a byproduct of sensing PP#3 :

• going down plane (aiming point) - yes, thrust is a straight line - spear a fish.
  OR
• tracing the base of the plane - tracing a straight line from the horizon to the horizon.

Two way to direct the thrust - two intentions - but funnilly enough, same travel of the hands! Your preference.

[johngolf33]

Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie here and want to first say thank you, thank you, thank you. This site is the best golf forum on the internet. The obvious reason is it is based on TGM but as important are the friendly members and their posts.

I have (actually I should say attempted) to read and understand Homer's book. And as many others before me, have strugled in understanding all of the contents and nuances.

I do have my first question. Homer states that the Arc of Approach should always be negative (down toward the ball.) He does not differentiate between irons or woods that I saw. Everything I have read however regarding the driver says that the Arc of Approach should be positive, that being, hitting on the up stroke to minimize spin and therefore increase distance.

In the January 2008 issue of Golf Magazine, Charlie King wrote an instructional article titled, "The Easy Way to Add 20 Yards." What caught my eye was a table of data that showed driving distances of varying clubhead speeds and angles of attack with the driver.

What are everyone's feeling regarding this issue?

Thanks,
Wali

Hi Wally,

Just a technical note. Arc of Approach was used by Homer to describe the path of the club head as it appears to trace an arc on the ground. The angle that it descends on the Plane is the Angle of Attack. At least that is how I understand the terminology.

[O.B.Left]

You're right OB, I'm boilling like termonuclear lava !
that's because I'm pasionnate about Golf and happy to help back others as they did with me on Lynn's wonderfull site!

Back to your question:
1-L-15: The club starts up and in after low point but the thrust continues Down Plane during the Follow-Through

6-C-2-A "...the Accumulators will not be released by this action until the Right Elbow can straighten (ie: both arms straight, the end of the follow through). Even then the Clubhead Lag is still maintained -- it has NO Release point."

Also, check this video (Hitting vs Swinging) on the Gallery and listen what Lynn says starting at 1:14.
This should answer your question about when the swich ends.



The direction of your Thrust and the direction your shaft is pointing are two separate things.
The more important is to put you mind on directing your thrust (ie: where is my PP#3 travelling?).
Your clubshaft/clubhead will follow all the time!
However, it is interesting to monitor where the clubshaft points at to check if the clubshaft lies on plane... (if not, it tells you that you're not moving PP#3 on the right track...... try again, look, look, look!)

As a result, the clubshaft should always points at the base of the plane line (either the clubhead or the but of the grip) to the horizon line.
Remember that after both arms straight, your left arm will swivel, allowing the shaft to "replane", the but end of the grip pointing now at the base of the plane.

But all this is a byproduct of sensing PP#3 :

• going down plane (aiming point) - yes, thrust is a straight line - spear a fish.
  OR
• tracing the base of the plane - tracing a straight line from the horizon to the horizon.

Two way to direct the thrust - two intentions - but funnilly enough, same travel of the hands! Your preference.

Thank you Yodeli. Ill save this to my LBG file. It is very, very good.

I love your "the direction of your Thrust and the shaft is pointing are two seperate things" and the "spear a fish" of the aiming point thrust.

As I work through 12-3, I realize I have issues around the geometry, delivery lines, arc/angle of approach etc, etc. I will figure this three dimensional puzzle out, damn it and the fairways of this land shall feel my wrath.

TGM is tough but thanks to people like you......... I will survive!

Sorry man its late here in Canada.

Salut mon ami

ob

[no_mind_golfer]

Yodeli

Venturi? As in Ken Venturi? Surely you're not referring to the aerodynamic venturi effect (a decrease in static pressure_ which occurs in contracting duct flows situations).... which a golf ball is not... ever. Its the Magnus effect... circulation which causes lift just like on an airplane wing that you want to be talking about. And as far as the relative magnitudes are concerned... a 50 - 50 side v. back spin ratio would put the lift vector off a a 45 degree angle, in which case the ball would neither fly very far nor stay on the of the fairway... unless a gale just so happened to be blowing perpendicular the the fairway (at just the right speed) in which case the tournament would be postponed anyway.

Low boring flight on windy days? i.e. tee it low and de-loft accordingly .... yes ... there is less wind (aka graidient) close to earth's surface... makes sense in that situation but attempting to put a "counterbalancin" "english" side-spin on? That's messing with disaster imhop. Did Ken Venturi do that?

[no_mind_golfer]

Everything I have read however regarding the driver says that the Arc of Approach should be positive, that being, hitting on the up stroke to minimize spin and therefore increase distance.

In the January 2008 issue of Golf Magazine, Charlie King wrote an instructional article titled, "The Easy Way to Add 20 Yards." What caught my eye was a table of data that showed driving distances of varying clubhead speeds and angles of attack with the driver.

What are everyone's feeling regarding this issue?

Thanks,
Wali

Don't know much about homer's theory but... Aerodynamics says this:

Spin is a function of "Dynamic loft" and clubhead speed. Dynamic loft equals face angle + increase in face angle due to shaft bend. A 10.5 on a soft flex shaft swung fast may infact be a 15 deg dynamic loft.

For each swing speed (which via smash factor becomes a ball speed) and spin (it can and does vary ball to ball) there is an optimal launch angle for maximum carry. That's what we're striving for... optimum launch angle for given ball speed and spin.

Long drivers have figured out they need to minimize backspin (which , while providing useful lift via the Magnus effect, also increases form drag) and maximize launch angle. They use low lofted drivers on stiff shafts (to minimize spin) and hit up on it (to maximize launch angle). Bubba hits up 5 degrees when "going for it". But we mere mortal should keep in mind they're he-men who swing really fast and have much practice under their belt. Most people (men included) should tee off with their 3 wood (15 degrees of loft or more.

[yodeli]

...
As I work through 12-3, I realize I have issues around the geometry, delivery lines, arc/angle of approach etc, etc. I will figure this three dimensional puzzle out, damn it and the fairways of this land shall feel my wrath.

TGM is tough but thanks to people like you......... I will survive!

Sorry man its late here in Canada.

Salut mon ami

Lol,
Merci OB,!

If you need help with your geometry, I setup a blog with two articles you might find interesting.
These are reminders of the geometry of the stroke: you already know the concepts but seing pictures sometimes helps lighting some bulbs in the brain.
The drawings are a bit dramatic but exageration helps in seeing normaly unseen things!
Geometry of the stroke face-on: this one helps seing low point and will tell you a lot about what to do to achieve correct ball/turf contact.
Geometry of the stroke top-view: this one is my favorite - rarely seen - the best way to understand the requirement to hit out on the ball!
This drawing will tell you a lot about ball position relative to clubhead travel:
Say you play a wedge with a ball back in the stance. This drawing shows that your clubhead must still do a lot of travel out after impact in order to execute a perfect stroke.
On the contrary, with a driver and a ball positionned at low point, the ball is also at the outmost point of the clubhead travel. The clubhead will travel immediately in after impact.

Intuitively, we think about those two cats as two different strokes but it's really the same and unique geometric principle!

Isn't TGM cool?