A Question for Yoda, regarding Homer and Shaft Flex

[12 piece bucket]

I appreciate you thinking so. Isn't it amazing how things work out so well?

I wouldn't change those events for anything. And, Lynn's house can't be more than 7 miles from my facility. I'm just thankful his grandchildren live here in Atlanta. It makes me feel safer about not having to move to follow him somewhere.

Lynn calls all these events serendipitous. But, I think it was God having pity on a middle-aged, red-neck, golf pro, from the other side of the tracks (me), that needed a little more education. So, he brought Lynn out of hibernation to help me. That’s the way I see it.

I'll second. I and at least another 3000 or so are glad that Lil' Green Dude slithered out from under his rock and wiped the sleep boogers outta his eyes.

[12 piece bucket]

Thats said with a lisp right

Mmm hmm. That's right baby.

[jpeck]

I once asked Tom about hitting vs swinging. Also release types.
All stress the clubshaft different ways. Tom now has some of that in his fitting program but still believes in the old ball flight laws. That is a shame and shows there is still a ways to go for the average fitter to improve the tools in hand.

Rifles - years into this game and I do not ever stock them.

"Play the lightest shaft that you can control". Note not "play the lightest most flexible shaft that you can control" which is the industry catch cry. Why? Coz too many fitted players end up way too whippy. But for an average Joe, better too whippy than too stiff.

I just pulled apart a so called fitted HG club for a client today. Fitter had to have been on drugs. Builder must have had a quota for glue that had expired. I fix more HGs than almost any other brand of 'fitted clubs'. Not having a go at HGs just stating what I see. Over priced and the fitting system is still in the stone age. Most fitters are not TGM pro's and so just are ice cream salesmen...unlike the fellows who run this site
If you are going to get HGs, go there or do your dough!

My hg's were one inch over standard length, plus 4 degrees more upright than standard and the shaft flexed out as softer than ladies. The clubs that I have now suit me very well. They are 1/4 inch over than standard length, 2 degrees flat, with a reg Dynalite shaft.

For the cost of my hg's I could have bought 3 sets of clubs that actually fit.

[neil]

As a matter of interest, who fitted you?

[golfgnome]

My hg's were one inch over standard length, plus 4 degrees more upright than standard and the shaft flexed out as softer than ladies. The clubs that I have now suit me very well. They are 1/4 inch over than standard length, 2 degrees flat, with a reg Dynalite shaft.

For the cost of my hg's I could have bought 3 sets of clubs that actually fit.

It is very unfortunate that you feel this way about your HG's. Before any more "experts" comment on HG let's first clarify a few points.
First of all what is "standard"? HG uses 37.5 inches on a five iron. Some use 37.75, 38, 38.25 depending on the company or the shaft used. Some companies actually have different standards for different clubs.
The same argument is made for lie angle. HG uses 61 degrees on a 5 iron. Other companies are more upright, again sometimes using more than one "standard". HG also changes lie angle by 1/2 degrees or less in some cases. Many companies have changed their own standards for the sake of sales.
So if your HG's are 38.5 inches on the 5 iron (plus 1 inch) and 65 degrees (4 up) then what standard are you using? Please remember that every manufacturer is different.
Now let's discuss shaft flex. How many cycles on what kind of shaft, at what length, etc. The reason many "experts" have a problem with HG's is because they do not understand what process is used. HG uses what is commonly called a "flat" cut in their irons, which means that there is about 1 cycle difference from club to club. A “standard” cut uses about 7 cycles from club to club. What this means is 2 completely different ways to measure flex. Which one is correct? That is for the player to determine. I enjoy the softer “feeling” short irons which a flat cut produces. HG can cut shafts either way for the player.
I have learned over the years not to question the fits of other golf professionals. As we all know there are a variety of ways to teach the golf swing, not all correct. There are also a number of ways to fit a golf club, not all are correct. I personally do not think a fit can be correct unless there is feedback from the player, teacher, and fitter. When I fit golf clubs I use a launch monitor, ball flight, and video. I use the club to change motion and ball flight. I will not sell a person golf clubs unless I feel it will improve their motion and subsequent ball flight. The reason I use HG is because they are THE ONLY GOLF CLUB MANUFACTURER that stands behind the teacher/ fitter and allows changes to be made for free in the 1st 100 days. Any changes after that for one year are done at half price. Why? Because HG wants the player to improve and understands how the equipment affects motion.
When you decided to buy your HG’s I am confident you did so because you actually hit the club and liked it. I would hope that a lie board was used and you did mark the clubs in the center of the face and center of the sole, If you played with them and did not like them you should have addressed this with your teacher/fitter. I have had students send testimonials to HG about how much they love their clubs then quit playing them because an “expert” said they were this or that, thus destroying their trust.

I just pulled apart a so called fitted HG club for a client today. Fitter had to have been on drugs. Builder must have had a quota for glue that had expired. I fix more HGs than almost any other brand of 'fitted clubs'. Not having a go at HGs just stating what I see. Over priced and the fitting system is still in the stone age. Most fitters are not TGM pro's and so just are ice cream salesmen...unlike the fellows who run this site.

Quotes like these are what TGM has been dealing with for years, a complete lack of understanding. Henry-Griffitts has pioneered fitting and does so many things that other companies not only will not do but CAN’T do. Our fitting cart has a minimum of 4,000 combinations of shaft type, flex, length, head design, lie angle, loft, etc. I think that most carts come with 40. HG was the first to introduce a 13 degree driver, the industry has since followed. HG was the first to come out with a 16 degree driver and the industry again is following. HG developed the interchangeable head system more than 10 years ago. Again the industry is following. These are just a few examples of HG’s stone-age mentality. Also, HG’s suggested retail price is the same as just about every other manufacturer out there. I invite anybody reading this to visit www.henry-griffitts.com and find out how dedicated we are to helping the student and teacher achieve their goals. Also, you might ask Lynn and Ted their opinions on HG and their views about what I demonstrate everyday as an HG fitter and TGM teacher.

[YodasLuke]

It is very unfortunate that you feel this way about your HG's. Before any more "experts" comment on HG let's first clarify a few points.
First of all what is "standard"? HG uses 37.5 inches on a five iron. Some use 37.75, 38, 38.25 depending on the company or the shaft used. Some companies actually have different standards for different clubs.
The same argument is made for lie angle. HG uses 61 degrees on a 5 iron. Other companies are more upright, again sometimes using more than one "standard". HG also changes lie angle by 1/2 degrees or less in some cases. Many companies have changed their own standards for the sake of sales.
So if your HG's are 38.5 inches on the 5 iron (plus 1 inch) and 65 degrees (4 up) then what standard are you using? Please remember that every manufacturer is different.
Now let's discuss shaft flex. How many cycles on what kind of shaft, at what length, etc. The reason many "experts" have a problem with HG's is because they do not understand what process is used. HG uses what is commonly called a "flat" cut in their irons, which means that there is about 1 cycle difference from club to club. A “standard” cut uses about 7 cycles from club to club. What this means is 2 completely different ways to measure flex. Which one is correct? That is for the player to determine. I enjoy the softer “feeling” short irons which a flat cut produces. HG can cut shafts either way for the player.
I have learned over the years not to question the fits of other golf professionals. As we all know there are a variety of ways to teach the golf swing, not all correct. There are also a number of ways to fit a golf club, not all are correct. I personally do not think a fit can be correct unless there is feedback from the player, teacher, and fitter. When I fit golf clubs I use a launch monitor, ball flight, and video. I use the club to change motion and ball flight. I will not sell a person golf clubs unless I feel it will improve their motion and subsequent ball flight. The reason I use HG is because they are THE ONLY GOLF CLUB MANUFACTURER that stands behind the teacher/ fitter and allows changes to be made for free in the 1st 100 days. Any changes after that for one year are done at half price. Why? Because HG wants the player to improve and understands how the equipment affects motion.
When you decided to buy your HG’s I am confident you did so because you actually hit the club and liked it. I would hope that a lie board was used and you did mark the clubs in the center of the face and center of the sole, If you played with them and did not like them you should have addressed this with your teacher/fitter. I have had students send testimonials to HG about how much they love their clubs then quit playing them because an “expert” said they were this or that, thus destroying their trust.

I just pulled apart a so called fitted HG club for a client today. Fitter had to have been on drugs. Builder must have had a quota for glue that had expired. I fix more HGs than almost any other brand of 'fitted clubs'. Not having a go at HGs just stating what I see. Over priced and the fitting system is still in the stone age. Most fitters are not TGM pro's and so just are ice cream salesmen...unlike the fellows who run this site.

Quotes like these are what TGM has been dealing with for years, a complete lack of understanding. Henry-Griffitts has pioneered fitting and does so many things that other companies not only will not do but CAN’T do. Our fitting cart has a minimum of 4,000 combinations of shaft type, flex, length, head design, lie angle, loft, etc. I think that most carts come with 40. HG was the first to introduce a 13 degree driver, the industry has since followed. HG was the first to come out with a 16 degree driver and the industry again is following. HG developed the interchangeable head system more than 10 years ago. Again the industry is following. These are just a few examples of HG’s stone-age mentality. Also, HG’s suggested retail price is the same as just about every other manufacturer out there. I invite anybody reading this to visit www.henry-griffitts.com and find out how dedicated we are to helping the student and teacher achieve their goals. Also, you might ask Lynn and Ted their opinions on HG and their views about what I demonstrate everyday as an HG fitter and TGM teacher.

Let me be the first to step up to the front of the class and voice my opinion. I have to say that Jeff is a total professional, and is excellent at what he does. He's a great asset to HG, and the Barclays Golf School would have been impossible without him. He was a tremendous help.

On a personal note, I love my HG clubs. When I was fit, I fit into a 38" 5 iron, at HG's standard lie angle. I am effectively 1 degree upright under HG's scale. I'm 6 feet tall, with monkey arms . I have since been tested by multiple HG fitters that I know, and my fit has not changed since being fit five years ago. MY CLUBS ARE STILL THE SAME! So, I've saved thousands of dollars, by not having to find a new set each year that might work. Once you get the right set of clubs, there's no reason to get anything else.

In addition, if I wanted another brand of clubs, I'd have to order them, remove the shafts, have those shafts SST PURED and re-installed, for an additional cost. That would be, if only by the grace of God, the shafts were of the same frequency. Or, I could just order another set of HG clubs that are already PURED from the factory. The shaft is the engine for the club and sets off the rack are inferior, in comparison to HG.

As another aside, I was tested by one of my friends that works for another major manufacturer. He tested me on a launch monitor to get the hard data. His net findings were that my clubs were perfect for me. He asked me what brand of launch monitor I used when I was fitted, and I told him it was a human launch monitor, an HG Fitter. We did it by watching ball flight. When another company says, "don't change your clubs, they're perfect for you", I feel confident that I have a good match.

If I thought something was better, I'd play it.

[Yoda]

I invite anybody reading this to visit www.henry-griffitts.com and find out how dedicated we are to helping the student and teacher achieve their goals. Also, you might ask Lynn and Ted their opinions on HG and their views about what I demonstrate everyday as an HG fitter and TGM teacher.

...I love my HG clubs. When I was fit, I fit into a 38" 5 iron, at HG's standard lie angle. I am effectively 1 degree upright under HG's scale. I'm 6 feet tall, with monkey arms.

In May 2005, Billy McDonald, GSEB, Master Clubfitter and Chairman of Henry-Griffitts, helped me into a new set of HGs. There were no fitting charts or launch monitors, just me and him and cart full of heads and thistles. I Hit. He fit (a new Clubshaft). I Swung. He hung (a new Clubhead). We Hit and fit and Swung and hung like this for some time, and then he said...

"I think we're done."

"Why?" said I.

"Because you've hit the last fifty balls with that club."

To make a long story short, I got my new clubs a couple of days later -- when you're ready to roll with HG, they're ready to roll with you! -- and prompted by an invite from a friend, headed to the golf course. I hadn't played a round of golf in months (January 4th). I had taught and drilled and so forth in the meantime, but I am not kidding...no golf.

Results?

70.

As in two-under on a championship layout. I lost a shot coming in -- -- and I was choking like crazy into 'the house', but I somehow nailed it down.

That's the truth...and those clubs have been in my bag ever since.

So, we know two things: First, the HG Club works, and second, I had the opportunity to be fit well. There are many fine brands of golf clubs on the market today. Unfortunately, there are not so many fine fitters.

A few months ago, I found myself watching golfgnome -- Jeff Hull, GSEB, PGA, -- fitting several golfers in a Demo Day down South. What I saw, I found hard to believe. I'm watching an accountant drill shot-after-shot with his brand new, well-endorsed Driver low right, low right, low right. Jeff -- who in addition to his clubfitting and teaching talents, also happens to be the 2004 Georgia Section PGA Champion -- walks to the fitting cart, grabs a shaft and screws on a head and -- voila! -- long, high and straight. Another long, high and straight. And then one more.

Back into the accountant's hands went the first Club -- the retail customer's attempt to buy ball flight.

Low right. Low right. Low right.

And then back to Jeff's concoction: Long, high, straight. Long, high, straight.

No TGM. No hands-on coaching. No nothin'. Just a different golf club. I had never seen anything quite like it.

Until the next guy. Then, more of the same!

Anyway, the bottom line is that I invited Jeff up to Westchester, N.Y., to work this same magic with the private clients of Barclays Capital at our Barclays Classic Golf Academy. We weren't selling clubs, and our fitting specs were designed to be 'brand generic' and portable. Our objective was to get a club that fit into the hands of the student prior to his or her instruction. Did we get that job done? We didn't have the benefit of outdoor ball flight those four days, but the indoor launch monitors told the tale:

Professionally done, regardless of brand, clubfitting works.

Big time.

[jpeck]

My hg's did not fit.

[golfgnome]

Please, please, please tell us all why they did not fit. Please tell us if you went through a follow-up with your teacher. If they do not fit, private message me so maybe we can fix the situation. We want the clubs to work. Blanket statements that "they do not fit" puts the blame on HG. Like I stated originally, there is a relationship between you and your fitter/teacher. If he did not want to work with you, then I blame him. But if you are going with the opinion of another fitter or club repair person, then HG can not be held responsible. We want you to enjoy your clubs and your game.

[Yoda]

My hg's did not fit.

Sounds like you've got a legitmate beef, jpeck. You paid for something you obviously didn't get. But your beef is with the fitter, not the company. They can only build according to the specs they are given.

Years ago, I paid handsomely for a custom-built set of Titlelist irons. I was fitted by a competent PGA professional and the company was given accurate specs, but what I got was nothing close. At their expense, I completely re-worked that set with a local clubfitter. In that instance, I blamed Titleist.

As I should have.