The Tomasello Tapes -- Chapter Five / Power

[neil]

If you stop at the top ,where is the lag?
There is a difference between the weight and the lag pressure.
Surely you must have movement to "lag"?

[SECGolf]

I'm just thinking here, could be wrong...

If you have a obviously whippy shaft, and hold the club up, the shaft will droop because the weight of the clubhead. No continuous movement. Things just are. The hands feel the pressure generated by this initial lag.

Trying to think back to physics, isn't weight a measure of pressure (as opposed to mass - a measure of the "stuff" inside an object)?

Then you must move the club in a way to maintain this initial pressure (or else there is no way you can maintain control of the club - the club then dictates movement). I think this is how the hands are sensors, how they dictate body movement - they know to maintain the pressure and will instruct the body to move in a way that keeps the pressure (for example, if the right hip is in the way, blocking hand movement, pressure can't be maintained, educated hands that feel pressure tell the hip to get the heck out of the way).

[6bmike]

I'm just thinking here, could be wrong...

If you have a obviously whippy shaft, and hold the club up, the shaft will droop because the weight of the clubhead. No continuous movement. Things just are. The hands feel the pressure generated by this initial lag.

Trying to think back to physics, isn't weight a measure of pressure (as opposed to mass - a measure of the "stuff" inside an object)?

Then you must move the club in a way to maintain this initial pressure (or else there is no way you can maintain control of the club - the club then dictates movement). I think this is how the hands are sensors, how they dictate body movement - they know to maintain the pressure and will instruct the body to move in a way that keeps the pressure (for example, if the right hip is in the way, blocking hand movement, pressure can't be maintained, educated hands that feel pressure tell the hip to get the heck out of the way).

Loading #3 Pressure Point and its resistence to directional change is Clubhead Lag PRESSURE. Pull a Mop- Drag. Over come its resistence to create Pressure to move it. Clutch and squeeze the mop handle as hard and as tight as you want- it doesn't have Lag pressure- a tight grip, yes, Lag pressure- none. It has to change direction. The Down Swing- if if you are a Swinger- pull.

The Hands do not create pressure- they feel and monitor it. The Hands do not move it. They are MOVED. They are moved by the power accumulators from Start Down.

How and when do the Hands feel pressure that says the right hip is in the way and "blocking hand movement"?

[SECGolf]

Loading #3 Pressure Point and its resistence to directional change is Clubhead Lag PRESSURE. Pull a Mop- Drag. Over come its resistence to create Pressure to move it. Clutch and squeeze the mop handle as hard and as tight as you want- it doesn't have Lag pressure- a tight grip, yes, Lag pressure- none. It has to change direction. The Down Swing- if if you are a Swinger- pull.

The Hands do not create pressure- they feel and monitor it. The Hands do not move it. They are MOVED. They are moved by the power accumulators from Start Down.

How and when do the Hands feel pressure that says the right hip is in the way and "blocking hand movement"?

If you pick up a mop, hold it (don't move it) so the handle is parallel to the ground, the weight of the mop head is most certainly pulling on the handle (down) The hands can sense this pressure. There is a droop in the handle. Read section titled "Loading the Lag" In just one example, (drag loading), it is written that club head lag is established by throwing the club against the pressure point. NO change of direction there. Even before its resistance to change, there is clubhead lag, that creates pressure on the hands.

When the hands are moved (IN AGREEMENT), more pressure can be created (thus distance control in "5 yard increments."

When -The hands feel the pressure when INITIAL clubhead lag pressure is established. See "Loading the Lag."

How - through feel (nerves). Get a fishing pole. tie a weight on instead of bait. you can feel the pressure of this weight in your hands. No movement needed.
PULL A MOP - HECK YES. If you don't pull a mop you will certainly lose the INITIAL clubhead lag pressure. If you want to splash someone with a bunch of water, go ahead create more pressure. By maintaining clubhead lag, you have the ability to direct the club on plane and you do not violate the law of the flail - direction and thrust.

"Resistance to directional change" This resistance is there in the mop and the
clubhead when the items are held up independent of any movement (just there - inert) "create pressure to move it" You are simply creating more pressure ( not initial club head lag pressure). Look at the picture of clubhead lag in the book. It is just there, no movement needed to create initial pressure. That is how the hands can moniter from the top.

You could move the right hip without dictation from the hands. But per 5-0 this would be pivot controlled hands. As stated in the book, this method will work, but you risk precision.

[SECGolf]

Clutch and squeeze the mop handle as hard and as tight as you want- it doesn't have Lag pressure- a tight grip, yes, "?

Interesting mention of tight grip. That's why the common advice of a "loose grip" can be harmful. Severe reduction in the chance of your computer registering initial club head lag. Didn't Kelley say club head lag is elusive? I know the secret of golf. You have got to detect the pressure in your hands and maintain it (by driving the hands).

[6bmike]

Dude- put the mop head on the floor. It is the feel of dragging a mop on a floor to feel lag pressure- not holding it outward in a carry. Resisting the change in inertia.

All lag pressure is from change of direction- even 'throwing’- it is a swingers load of the wrist cock. Then it changes direction- and like a crash test dummy wanting to go through the car window- that #3pp resists the downward pull against the shaft- LAG PRESSURE is born. Come on guy! I’m not bullsheeting you.

Second- your Hands are monitoring too many wrong things. They do not monitor the pivot – they are NO pivot components in section eight or in 12-3-0 for that very reason.


“You could move the right hip without dictation from the hands. But per 5-0 this would be pivot controlled hands. As stated in the book, this method will work, but you risk precision.” I give up.
My Hands trained the hip to move- as I said -the Hands do not need to micro-manage or monitor the pivot. Train it and move on. Let the Hands monitor what is important- the Plane line, Hand Path, its Pressure Points, an Aiming Point, Roll line Prep, etc- go read the checklist, 12-3-0, 45 things to monitor- not one is the pivot.

Hands do not monitor the pivot. They monitor their primary task.


No grip is loose- nor restrictive. My point that you failed to see was that you can clutch or squeeze as hard as you want and it will NOT produce Lag pressure. None what so ever.

[neil]

Dude- put the mop head on the floor. It is the feel of dragging a mop on a floor to feel lag pressure- not holding it outward in a carry. Resisting the change in inertia.

All lag pressure is from change of direction- even 'throwing’- it is a swingers load of the wrist cock. Then it changes direction- and like a crash test dummy wanting to go through the car window- that #3pp resists the downward pull against the shaft- LAG PRESSURE is born. Come on guy! I’m not bullsheeting you.

Second- your Hands are monitoring too many wrong things. They do not monitor the pivot – they are NO pivot components in section eight or in 12-3-0 for that very reason.


“You could move the right hip without dictation from the hands. But per 5-0 this would be pivot controlled hands. As stated in the book, this method will work, but you risk precision.” I give up.
My Hands trained the hip to move- as I said -the Hands do not need to micro-manage or monitor the pivot. Train it and move on. Let the Hands monitor what is important- the Plane line, Hand Path, its Pressure Points, an Aiming Point, Roll line Prep, etc- go read the checklist, 12-3-0, 45 things to monitor- not one is the pivot.

Hands do not monitor the pivot. They monitor their primary task.


No grip is loose- nor restrictive. My point that you failed to see was that you can clutch or squeeze as hard as you want and it will NOT produce Lag pressure. None what so ever.

Nice one Mike.I didn't have time to get into detail earlier but you summed it up in your own inimitable way -LAG is LAG ...Weight is - Weight

[coophitter]

SEC- Lag pressure is obtain three different ways- all the result of LOADING the Accumultors at the top and/or the Pivot at the start down sequence. Load and Drag. Feeling the dead weight of the club is useless if it can resist movement (like dragging baby brother) and stressed.

When Homer says to:
Start the down swing with a Hip Slide, before the Arm Motion begins to remain On Plane.
Keep your body ahead of your hands and your hands ahead of the club,
Educated the Hands to feel the resistance of motion,
Keep seperate the motion of the shoulders and the hips (Hula Hula) to allow the right forearm to remain on plane.

"Crepes Suzette!"- I'll stay with Mr. Kelley.

btw way- my pivot responses perfectly to my hands. At Start Down- like Pavlos dogs- they respond. They never let the hands move off plane with the first move. The Hands would not like that.

good luck- I'm not your dog anymore.

If those arguing about what starts the downswing could agree on what ends the backswing, then I think I could enter into the fray. It would also help if those arguing about when the downswing starts would agree as to when the backswing ends.

[YodasLuke]

Then maybe one day will meet up on the golf course and see who really kicks butt. As they say, the proof is in the pudding.

DG

Can a hitter play, too?

[6bmike]

If those arguing about what starts the downswing could agree on what ends the backswing, then I think I could enter into the fray. It would also help if those arguing about when the downswing starts would agree as to when the backswing ends.

A Hitter stops at the TOP with Single Wrist Action, 10-18-C-2 and a Swinger stops at the END with Standard Wrist Action, 10-18-A.

Top is where the Hands are shoulder high ( or slightly above) and ON PLANE- Power Package assembled. This is where a Hitter will load #3 pressure point BEHIND the shaft on Start Down. The 10-18-C Single Wrist Action, shoulder turn and Checkrein Action of Extensor Action comes to a halt. Load and Drive Downward.

End is when the stroke for a Swinger goes past Top with a Standard Wrist Action, 10-18-A, a swinger's start up swivel and fully assembly power package waiting for 7-19-C.