Geometry of the circle and how it applies to shot shaping .

[O.B.Left]

Man , thats beautiful footage. Flywheel and one moving in sync with the arm swing. But what the heck does that mean mechanically? We can see it , feel it like MJ says but what is it about those swings that we are so attracted to. Balance, grace , power etc etc . Yes but consider what Homer meant by Rhythm and how the pivot and the arms must move in sync to ensure Rhythm.


Homers concept of Rhythm requires the clubhead , clubshaft , hands , arms to moving as a unit , in line , with a constant RPM about its centre albeit with different surface speeds depending upon how far away they are from the centre. Break the left wrist and break the Rhythm .

But there is an important consideration to be made between the relative rates of rotation between the Pivot and the Primary Lever to ensure Rhythm. Rotation of the Primary Lever being #3 power accumulator , roll power.

CHAPTER 6 POWER PACKAGE

PAGE 71

TRANSFER POWER

The Turning Rate of the Pivot Components – especially the Shoulder Turn as actuated by Hip Action (7-15) – MUST be identical and synchronous with the #3 Accumulator Roll, else its Rhythm gets disrupted. Or at least difficult. This requirement also dictates when and how much Downstroke Hip Slide is needed.

As I read Homer and correct me if you guys think otherwise. He's saying essentially " get the turning rate of the pivot and #3 power accumulator mismatched and the left wrist will tend to break". Club face problems , directional difficulty due to the clubhead swinging ahead of the hands.

So lets say you get your pivot turning faster than your #3 is rolling through the shot. That would logically lead to a shot that goes to the right to my mind as the Primary Lever would be trailing , clubface open. Vice versa for a manipulated Primary Lever that rolls faster than the pivot is turning.

A further complication is that the relative effort needed to rotate the pivot vis a vis the #3 is different.

I have this sneaking suspicion that when good golfers hit a bad shot its a Rhythm problem , but born out of a mis matched Pivot and Primary Lever rate of rotation. Tension can do it . Over acceleration , quitting.

BTW our old buddy Ted Fort is a genius when it comes to coordinating out of sync pivots and primary levers. He's got some drills that may some day be common fare on practice tee's the world over. I highly recommend him for anyone whose interested in a lesson. Hitters or swingers.

[O.B.Left]

Need to edit .

Earlier I described the Angle of Attack as being a straight line drawn between impact and separation reasoning that that was what the ball knew. Homers definition would have it , the angle , the straight line as drawn between impact and low point.

We need to adopt this definitionally to be consistent with his drawings in 2-C.

It also presents another interesting observation in regard to how the same thing , geometric line or clubhead path (ie arc, tangent , cord , circle etc) when viewed from a different perspective , point of view takes on a different name . So again , to understand Homer's geometry his words on the subject , you must understand the implied perspective to each of his terms. Words make it all sound too complicated again. Here are some drawings courtesy of Daryl and a post from Yoda.






The very same line when viewed from a looking straight at the golfer perspective , caddy view or from the players perspective is called two different names. Namely , the Angle of Attack and the Angle of Approach are the very same line, the very same cord on the circle .

Talking the "true" geometric (clubhead's ) Angle of Approach here , not to be confused with other similarly named concepts, procedures. I.e. this is the clubHEAD'S Angle of Approach as distinct from other components line of flight , path which may also have their own Angle of Approach . Right Arm, Right Elbow , #3 pressure point , Right Knee..... anything that moves forward during impact could have an angle of approach logically.

The true geometric Angle of Approach relates to the Delivery Line of the club head. The clubhead path . The circular orbit is the clubhead's (sweetspot's) orbit after all , nothing else.


The clubhead does not travel the straight line Angle of Approach or the Angle of Attack. It travels the circular orbit. Despite what you might have read , heard from various sources. It must be so and it is so. There are no "flat spots" to the circular clubhead orbit!!!!!

[HungryBear]

Need to edit .

Earlier I described the Angle of Attack as being a straight line drawn between impact and separation reasoning that that was what the ball knew. Homers definition would have it , the angle , the straight line as drawn between impact and low point.

We need to adopt this definitionally to be consistent with his drawings in 2-C.

It also presents another interesting observation in regard to how the same thing , geometric line or clubhead path (ie arc, tangent , cord , circle etc) when viewed from a different perspective , point of view takes on a different name . So again , to understand Homer's geometry his words on the subject , you must understand the implied perspective to each of his terms. Words make it all sound too complicated again. Here are some drawings courtesy of Daryl and a post from Yoda.


Attachment 2953

Attachment 2952

The very same line when viewed from a looking straight at the golfer perspective , caddy view or from the players perspective is called two different names. Namely , the Angle of Attack and the Angle of Approach are the very same line, the very same cord on the circle .

Talking the "true" geometric (clubhead's ) Angle of Approach here , not to be confused with other similarly named concepts, procedures. I.e. this is the clubHEAD'S Angle of Approach as distinct from other components line of flight , path which may also have their own Angle of Approach . Right Arm, Right Elbow , #3 pressure point , Right Knee..... anything that moves forward during impact could have an angle of approach logically.

The true geometric Angle of Approach relates to the Delivery Line of the club head. The clubhead path . The circular orbit is the clubhead's (sweetspot's) orbit after all , nothing else.


The clubhead does not travel the straight line Angle of Approach or the Angle of Attack. It travels the circular orbit. Despite what you might have read , heard from various sources. It must be so and it is so. There are no "flat spots" to the circular clubhead orbit!!!!!

So, explain to me again, why these lines are important and not just, ho-hum, lines.

HB

[MizunoJoe]

Man , thats beautiful footage. Flywheel and one moving in sync with the arm swing. But what the heck does that mean mechanically? We can see it , feel it like MJ says but what is it about those swings that we are so attracted to. Balance, grace , power etc etc . Yes but consider what Homer meant by Rhythm and how the pivot and the arms must move in sync to ensure Rhythm.


Homers concept of Rhythm requires the clubhead , clubshaft , hands , arms to moving as a unit , in line , with a constant RPM about its centre albeit with different surface speeds depending upon how far away they are from the centre. Break the left wrist and break the Rhythm .

I have this sneaking suspicion that when good golfers hit a bad shot its a Rhythm problem , but born out of a mis matched Pivot and Primary Lever rate of rotation. Tension can do it . Over acceleration , quitting.

I do not understand why HK didn't include Rhythm as the 4th Imperative. There are many good ball strikers who bob and/or sway, but none without Rhythm.

[HungryBear]

I do not understand why HK didn't include Rhythm as the 4th Imperative. There are many good ball strikers who bob and/or sway, but none without Rhythm.

Because of the difference between the definition for IMPERATIVE and ESSENTIAL. Rhythm belongs in the ESSENTIALS "bracket" as does balance and stationary "head".

Essentials are a higher standard than imperative




HB

[O.B.Left]

So, explain to me again, why these lines are important and not just, ho-hum, lines.

HB

As per Yoda's post, the Angle of Attack (caddy view) describes Impacts Downwards direction. The Angle of Approach describes the Forward and OUTWARD direction to impact from the players perspective. Contrast this on plane, inside out impact (not stroke) to Steering. There is a big difference perceptually. And in terms of the direction of Thrust.... you actually do swing OUT for a square plane line !!! Even when the clubhead does not cross over the plane line!!!

[HungryBear]

As per Yoda's post, the Angle of Attack (caddy view) describes Impacts Downwards direction. The Angle of Approach describes the Forward and OUTWARD direction to impact from the players perspective. Contrast this on plane, inside out impact (not stroke) to Steering. There is a big difference perceptually. And in terms of the direction of Thrust.... you actually do swing OUT for a square plane line !!! Even when the clubhead does not cross over the plane line!!!

They are JUST lines, In fact one line with 2 names that points down , out and forward on "the plane". the line goes from impact point to low point. but. The clubface is NEVER aligned to the line, the ball never travels on the line and it changes with ball placement and club length etc. So, Yes down out and forward is ok by itself. Just my perspective, but if someone uses the line for their swing that is ok, I guess.

How about using the #3pp? The rffw on the plane? That means the right elbow?



HB

[O.B.Left]

I do not understand why HK didn't include Rhythm as the 4th Imperative. There are many good ball strikers who bob and/or sway, but none without Rhythm.

Interesting point.

I suppose when you assume a flat left wrist, Rhythm is also assumed . Regardless , Rhythm and the co ordination of pivot turn and #3 roll are crucial.

[O.B.Left]

Very succinct and interesting post Bear.

The clubface is NEVER aligned to the line, the ball never travels on the line and it changes with ball placement and club length etc. So, Yes down out and forward is ok by itself. Just my perspective, but if someone uses the line for their swing that is ok, I guess.

-Yes you are correct in a general sense but 2-J-3 B does describe such a procedure , albeit its somewhat of a rarity IMO. Namely the straight line Angle of Approach Delivery Line. . Delivery Line meaning clubhead line of flight as seen from the golfers perspective. A procedure where the clubhead while travelling the circular orbit appears to also cover the straght line Angle of Approach. Note the "appears". With an associated straight line clubhead blur, from the players perspective. Something the player could use to monitor his on plane motion , a visual companion to Tracing .

This straight line Delivery LIne (which will appeal to people who wish to to Steer) requires an unusually high plane angle, geometrically. One that planes the circular orbit to the players eyes. Only then will the geometric straight line Angle of Approach (the line drawn on the circle) and the club heads circular orbit (the delivery line) appear as one , to the golfer from his perspective, only. This is geometry more than golf here IMO. A geometric anomaly IMO. A manner in which you could Steer a straight line delivery line and still comply with the circular orbit . A concept you would not arrive at when looking at things from any other perspective than the players. Or for that matter from any other means of investigation other than geometry of the circle.

Put geometrically: "Under what conditions would a cord appear to lie on the same line as the circle?" Answer: When the circle is seen on edge to the point of view.


Getting to your point, (we've dealt with clubhead above) the clubface and the clubhead and the line of flight of the ball could theoretically be aligned to the Angle Of Approach. That'd be a straight push shot out to the right along the true geometric Angle of Approach assuming a ball played back of low point with its associated arbitrarily out to the right plane line. To hit a ball along a cord interior to this circle, along a target line left of the plane line, you'd need to Rotate the Grip square to your desired start line , the balls initial line of flight. Its a draw shot set up but mitigated by the extremely upright nature of the plane angle. This whole 2-J-3 B thing when complied with geometrically , IMO requires an usual sort of golf swing But it can be done.


-Yes the line changes with ball placement. Its runs from impact to low point. Which logically means that a ball placed at low point would have an Angle of Approach that did not point to the right . This relates to Homers use of the "arbitrarily" in 2-J-3 B , well IMO.

How about using the #3pp? The rffw on the plane? That means the right elbow?

Im not saying that other similarly named "Angle of Approach" procedures , the right arms Angle of Approach, the Hitters cross line Thrust etc are invalid or anything , they aren't!!! But those procedures arent Delivery LIne club HEAD procedures specifically. The Right Arm's , the #3pp's , The Right Elbow's Angle of Approach is not the Clubhead's Angle of Approach. 2-J-3 B relates to Delivery LIne (club head) not Delivery Path (Hands)! These various procedures may be associated , related to the true geometric Angle of Approach the cord on the circle but they are not the same definitionally. Nor do they travel the same path towards impact. The hand is not the elbow is not the club head.

If you thrust straight line , cross line , down and out until both arms straight per 1-L? and employ a plane angle which is lower than your eye line you will see a curved clubhead (Delivery LIne) blur! You will see the Arc not the Angle's blur. Others may have said otherwise , but we are assuming the clubhead rides the circular orbit at all times as it is assumed in our model, as it must in real life. There are no flat spots ! Thrust is straight line the circular orbit is not, the delivery line as seen by the player is not, with this one exception.

If you play the ball at low point , by definition the Angle Of Approach will not point out to the right , but the direction of Thrust is still down and out all the way to both arms straight ( the club not crossing over into an inside out stroke).
Direction of Thrust is all important , it is related to but not one and the same as a Delivery LIne of the clubhead.

This is sticky business, Homers writing style didnt help matters.

[MizunoJoe]

Interesting point.

I suppose when you assume a flat left wrist, Rhythm is also assumed . Regardless , Rhythm and the co ordination of pivot turn and #3 roll are crucial.

Can't assume that!