The Tomasello Tapes -- Chapter Five / Power

[SECGolf]

If the stroke is a 3 Barrel Hit pattern then Momentum Transfer is not used. A CF swinger would. They will need a start down that is from the bottom up- a linear pulling on the shaft.

Would it be correct to say this start down can occur through maintaining the correct feel in the hands and making the brain aware of the correct plane line that must be traced? I'll have to go back and study the training of zone 1 (I know it is mentioned). But part of me (now) says you don't have to train your body to make the movements to pick up your keys or to reach for a cup of coffee. Thanks.

[6bmike]

Would it be correct to say this start down can occur through maintaining the correct feel in the hands and making the brain aware of the correct plane line that must be traced? I'll have to go back and study the training of zone 1 (I know it is mentioned). But part of me (now) says you don't have to train your body to make the movements to pick up your keys or to reach for a cup of coffee. Thanks.

I'm heading to work- I'll get back to you on a few points. I will start a new thread since this is the Tomasello Tape thread.

The difference between reaching for keys or coffee and the movement of the body in a G.O.L.F. stroke is that reaching is not an athletic move.
More later.

[drewitgolf]

De-Caf anyone?

[asleep]

De-Caf anyone?

Gotta love the passion for the swing, errr, swings.

[Daz]

Would it be correct to say this start down can occur through maintaining the correct feel in the hands and making the brain aware of the correct plane line that must be traced? I'll have to go back and study the training of zone 1 (I know it is mentioned). But part of me (now) says you don't have to train your body to make the movements to pick up your keys or to reach for a cup of coffee. Thanks.

You certainly did have to train your body to pick up your keys or reach for a cup. It was just so long ago youve forgotten. Now its instinctive and you reinforce it everyday.

Watch a new baby with its rattle and toys they are training their body, hands, arms, fingers.

I know a guy who suffered a stroke and he had to retrain his body completely to do things we take for granted. One of the hardest things for him was learning to use a knife and fork again.

Unfortunately most of us were not introduced to golf at an early enough age to make the movements instinctive.

[SECGolf]

Watch a new baby with its rattle and toys they are training their body, hands, arms, fingers.

I know a guy who suffered a stroke and he had to retrain his body completely to do things we take for granted. One of the hardest things for him was learning to use a knife and fork again.

Heck yes, (and more yes) I'd go right along with the need to educate, and continue to educate the hands, arms, and fingers. I just wonder if you completely and absolutely "get the body" with the hand education (talking of golf stroke only). I think this is what Tomasello is screaming.? Wouldn't other alternatives (no matter how small or slight) venture into the realm of pivot controlled hands?

[6bmike]

Sorry I wasn't able to post my reply yesterday- I'll just post it here..

The Hands control the pivot. They are not the pivot. The Hands train and design the pivot's movement. The hands are the boss, the pivot is the laborer. The pivot's pivot gear train begins from the bottom up. Even TT moves his hips first- go check the front viewo pf his swing in chap 9. Small bump that continues to rotate just before the Hands drop.

This does not mean the pivot controls the Hands? NO. Never does a trained “by the Hands Pivot” ever dominate the Hands Delivery path to the ball. A pivot controlled Hands motion would always dominate and control the lines for the Hands.

Sorry I wasn't able to post my reply yesterday- I hope sometime today.

BUT... The Hands control the pivot. They are not the pivot. The Hands train and design the pivot movement. The hands are the boss, the pivot is the laborer

This does not mean the pivot controls the Hands? NO. Never does a trained “by the Hands Pivot” ever dominate the Hands Delivery path to the ball. A pivot controlled Hands motion would always dominate and control the lines for the Hands.

Understand Hula Hula- maybe one of the top original concepts Mr Kelley developed in his research- and you will see the relationship better between a Hand controlled Pivot and its Pivot components. The Hips, independent from the shoulders, creates a path for the hands. Ever so important for a Hitter to have an avenue and important for a CF gyro cranking swinger to free wheel the Master Accumulator. These actions are not pivot control. With Hula Hula, the Hands have complete guidance to the low point. How can that be pivot control?

Strip away everything a student of Homer Kelley’s book has learned and the last thing you will find- the first thing ever told to the student is Hands Control the Pivot. Even before The Imperatives. It is taught at the earliest introduce to TGM because the physics of a stroke should never control or dominate the geometric alignments. A student must understand this idea right from the start. The ‘reach’ is a nice way to introduce the concept the way elementary students learn about History. Details change the more you study.


Can you let the Hands drop without any hip movement? If that is the way you trained your pivot but I think the hands would be at the mercy of the rotation more so then with Hula Hula- the great highway builder. And not every stroke is a full swing.

Homer says Train the Pivot.
What’s the pivot for?
To Delivery the Hands to Impact.
The Hands train the pivot.
My Hands have trained the pivot (many times)

I have gotten little support discussing Hula Hula and the Training of the Pivot. Mike O and I have discussed this in another thread. I have reviewed all Yoda materials, his old posts, workshop notes and videos and for the life of me can see how Lynn taught me wrong.


Reach or Train, Hula Hula or Drop, Sweep or Snap, Hit or Swing. You got the options.

[Delaware Golf]

Sorry I wasn't able to post my reply yesterday- I'll just post it here..

The Hands control the pivot. They are not the pivot. The Hands train and design the pivot's movement. The hands are the boss, the pivot is the laborer. The pivot's pivot gear train begins from the bottom up. Even TT moves his hips first- go check the front viewo pf his swing in chap 9. Small bump that continues to rotate just before the Hands drop.

This does not mean the pivot controls the Hands? NO. Never does a trained “by the Hands Pivot” ever dominate the Hands Delivery path to the ball. A pivot controlled Hands motion would always dominate and control the lines for the Hands.

Sorry I wasn't able to post my reply yesterday- I hope sometime today.

BUT... The Hands control the pivot. They are not the pivot. The Hands train and design the pivot movement. The hands are the boss, the pivot is the laborer

This does not mean the pivot controls the Hands? NO. Never does a trained “by the Hands Pivot” ever dominate the Hands Delivery path to the ball. A pivot controlled Hands motion would always dominate and control the lines for the Hands.

Understand Hula Hula- maybe one of the top original concepts Mr Kelley developed in his research- and you will see the relationship better between a Hand controlled Pivot and its Pivot components. The Hips, independent from the shoulders, creates a path for the hands. Ever so important for a Hitter to have an avenue and important for a CF gyro cranking swinger to free wheel the Master Accumulator. These actions are not pivot control. With Hula Hula, the Hands have complete guidance to the low point. How can that be pivot control?

Strip away everything a student of Homer Kelley’s book has learned and the last thing you will find- the first thing ever told to the student is Hands Control the Pivot. Even before The Imperatives. It is taught at the earliest introduce to TGM because the physics of a stroke should never control or dominate the geometric alignments. A student must understand this idea right from the start. The ‘reach’ is a nice way to introduce the concept the way elementary students learn about History. Details change the more you study.


Can you let the Hands drop without any hip movement? If that is the way you trained your pivot but I think the hands would be at the mercy of the rotation more so then with Hula Hula- the great highway builder. And not every stroke is a full swing.

Homer says Train the Pivot.
What’s the pivot for?
To Delivery the Hands to Impact.
The Hands train the pivot.
My Hands have trained the pivot (many times)

I have gotten little support discussing Hula Hula and the Training of the Pivot. Mike O and I have discussed this in another thread. I have reviewed all Yoda materials, his old posts, workshop notes and videos and for the life of me can see how Lynn taught me wrong.


Reach or Train, Hula Hula or Drop, Sweep or Snap, Hit or Swing. You got the options.

One great concept in TGM is called "Facts and Illusions".....in the 7th edition you can find that concept on page XII second paragraph.....with this commentary, I hope all can see why Homer put the "Facts and Illusions" concept in the book. It's very real....

In the above comments you're witnessing someone interpreting the golf swing based on Illusion....not fact. Tomasello did not move his hips first on the downswing. That is a frickin Illusion pure and simple. Interesting to find someone in this state. But there it is....

Tomasello's hips react to the action of the Magic of the Right Forearm technique in the last paragraph of 7-3.

In his teaching, Tommy Tomasello used both Standard hip action and delayed (for both procedures he used the right forearm to start the downswing). Both approaches incorporated the use of the right forearm even with standard hip action to keep the HANDS on the straight line delivery path or the hands would have moved to an angled path. Yeeeeeeeee Hawwwwwwwwwww

And that's the truth (just the facts from personally studying with Tomasello)..No Illusion.

DG

[6bmike]

One great concept in TGM is called "Facts and Illusions".....in the 7th edition you can find that concept on page XII second paragraph.....with this commentary, I hope all can see why Homer put the "Facts and Illusions" concept in the book. It's very real....

In the above comments you're witnessing someone interpreting the golf swing based on Illusion....not fact. Tomasello did not move his hips first on the downswing. That is a frickin Illusion pure and simple. Interesting to find someone in this state. But there it is....

Tomasello's hips react to the action of the Magic of the Right Forearm technique in the last paragraph of 7-3.

In his teaching, Tommy Tomasello used both Standard hip action and delayed (for both procedures he used the right forearm to start the downswing). Both approaches incorporated the use of the right forearm even with standard hip action to keep the HANDS on the straight line delivery path or the hands would have moved to an angled path. Yeeeeeeeee Hawwwwwwwwwww

And that's the truth...

DG

First that someone is me, right, dkbg?

And what kind of state am I in?

This post had little or nothing to do with TT. I just mention that he even moves his hips at the start of the downswing and that it is still a Hands Controlled pivot. The post was about the idea of a Hands controlled pivot and some of its misconceptions.

Now, Chief, if TT taught Delayed Hip Action, his hips would lead the downswing. The hips trail the shoulders on the backswing and LEAD on the downswing. You do understand that, do you, HeYaw? Guess not.

Homer said never listen to what they say or write- watch what they do.

[Delaware Golf]

Facts and Illusions ya got to love it...............

DG