golfbulldog your argument has far from sold me yet i'm afraid. In 7-3 when Homer talks about the position of the right forearm he says 'should' he doesn't say it separates hitting and swinging. To me it's still an ideal. from my own experience i can get my right arm in all sorts of funky positions and still swing.
Back to 7-19, the text you quoted doesn't mean a great deal on it's own as it does not specify what the manipulation is. But Homer does seem to go on to clarify:
"Clubhead Lag can be established in three different ways:
-1. by resisting the Backstroke motion for Drive Loading
-2. with the Start Down motion for Float Loading
-3 by "throwing" the club against the Lag Pressure Point at The Top for Drag Loading"
Theres no way he;s resisting the backstroke for drive loading, lucky number 3 for me...
Hi Danny, not trying to convince every/anyone - just amusing to read over 30 posts discussing hit or swing for Cabrera with no consensus opinion formed and no mention of the loading action.
"6-C-2-0. CLUBHEAD LAG
is the "Secret of Golf" technique -without it the Line of Compression (2-0) cannot be sustained (3-F-7-B). "
So clubhead lag is the core of STLOC.. which would suggest that its establishment - ie. loading ( and it maintenance as per SECgolf) are key to the discussion of any swingpattern.
So much of the discussion has revolved around the use of accumulator 1 defining hit or swing ( probably because that is the key accumulator used in hitting/ pushing the pp3 ...ie. PP3 behind the shaft).... but 4 barrel swingers use it as well... presumably once the swingers pp3 has re-rotated back the quarter turn and is behind the shaft just prior to impact.
If this is the case then accumulator 1 should not be the defining characteristic for hit or swing if it can be common to both.
Nobody has a perfect definition... that is why there were so many differing opinions... 12 piece stuck his extremely well informed neck out and went for hitter, others saw swinger...
All i am saying is that the loading of lag is key component in the discussion and the manner in which you make/feel the shaft stress should really govern your other components... hinge action is a semi-natural secondary to what has gone before ( ie. a pure pulling swing will tend towards horizontal but can be over-ridden and pure hit with simultaneous release will tend towards angled but can also be manually over-ridden)...
What would be really interesting is to have a definition of what we mean by hit or swing, then work out a way of assessing players ( in whatevr way you like) to decide what they are doing...
Hi Danny, not trying to convince every/anyone - just amusing to read over 30 posts discussing hit or swing for Cabrera with no consensus opinion formed and no mention of the loading action.
"6-C-2-0. CLUBHEAD LAG
is the "Secret of Golf" technique -without it the Line of Compression (2-0) cannot be sustained (3-F-7-B). "
So clubhead lag is the core of STLOC.. which would suggest that its establishment - ie. loading ( and it maintenance as per SECgolf) are key to the discussion of any swingpattern.
So much of the discussion has revolved around the use of accumulator 1 defining hit or swing ( probably because that is the key accumulator used in hitting/ pushing the pp3 ...ie. PP3 behind the shaft).... but 4 barrel swingers use it as well... presumably once the swingers pp3 has re-rotated back the quarter turn and is behind the shaft just prior to impact.
If this is the case then accumulator 1 should not be the defining characteristic for hit or swing if it can be common to both.
Nobody has a perfect definition... that is why there were so many differing opinions... 12 piece stuck his extremely well informed neck out and went for hitter, others saw swinger...
All i am saying is that the loading of lag is key component in the discussion and the manner in which you make/feel the shaft stress should really govern your other components... hinge action is a semi-natural secondary to what has gone before ( ie. a pure pulling swing will tend towards horizontal but can be over-ridden and pure hit with simultaneous release will tend towards angled but can also be manually over-ridden)...
What would be really interesting is to have a definition of what we mean by hit or swing, then work out a way of assessing players ( in whatevr way you like) to decide what they are doing...
Good Post. When the hitting vs swinging comes up, my understanding says that technically, it is black and white. What is the basic intent of the right arm (accum #1) - to move lever actively or to move lever passively. Right there in 7-19 and 10-19. Also assuming a person is a pure hitter or swinger, there is absolutely no way to tell which unless you are in that person's mind. There are clues that ONLY MOST of the hitter or swinger population might have, but that's it. You can't assume against exceptions.
What would be really interesting is to have a definition of what we mean by hit or swing, then work out a way of assessing players ( in whatevr way you like) to decide what they are doing...
Can't be done. This has been the one thing asked by forum members on any TGM forum since the last century. Everyone want a "list."
The Intent of Push or Pull is invisible. The Geomtery is the same- that circle doesn't change- the motion is very much alike. The End of the swing is different on full shots and might be the closest part of the swing that one can tell if a TGMer is Hitting or Swinging. Tour guys are different- they all compensate some form of a pull. Tour guys never studied TGM, never had to decide if they pushed or pulled- they are pull full shots.
Maybe in a few years some real TGM kids grow up and make the tour. They will be the first ones that will know the difference. Nobody (AIs) had a clue to what the Hit stroke could be until Yoda swung forth from the Swamp- and that has four years ago. We live in a cross roads of golf and G.O.L.F. instruction.
We all have an opportunity no Tour player ever had- to build a machine to 'our' specs. Tour players will always have something we will NEVER have- frigging TALENT. They can out play anyone and always could. But that is changing and TGM-Lynn Blake-and others are making noise.
As for Loading Lag- you better load lag- was they even a question about it?
Body-Hands-Club, Impact. Lag is great, now thrust it.
The elephant is very like a tree, a wall, a fan, a snake and a rope. So are parts of The Golfing Machine.
Can't be done. This has been the one thing asked by forum members on any TGM forum since the last century. Everyone want a "list."
The Intent of Push or Pull is invisible. The Geomtery is the same- that circle doesn't change- the motion is very much alike. The End of the swing is different on full shots and might be the closest part of the swing that one can tell if a TGMer is Hitting or Swinging. Tour guys are different- they all compensate some form of a pull. Tour guys never studied TGM, never had to decide if they pushed or pulled- they are pull full shots.
Maybe in a few years some real TGM kids grow up and make the tour. They will be the first ones that will know the difference. Nobody (AIs) had a clue to what the Hit stroke could be until Yoda swung forth from the Swamp- and that has four years ago. We live in a cross roads of golf and G.O.L.F. instruction.
We all have an opportunity no Tour player ever had- to build a machine to 'our' specs. Tour players will always have something we will NEVER have- frigging TALENT. They can out play anyone and always could. But that is changing and TGM-Lynn Blake-and others are making noise.
As for Loading Lag- you better load lag- was they even a question about it?
Body-Hands-Club, Impact. Lag is great, now thrust it.
The elephant is very like a tree, a wall, a fan, a snake and a rope. So are parts of The Golfing Machine.
"Contrary to anything you may have read on the subject, there is no such individual as a born golfer. Some have more natural ability than others, but they've all been made." Ben Hogan (Power Golf).
Hi Danny, not trying to convince every/anyone - just amusing to read over 30 posts discussing hit or swing for Cabrera with no consensus opinion formed and no mention of the loading action.
You have a point not really sure this thread is going anywhere so many conflicting opinions, but i couldn't think of a better way to waste my day
Everyone want a "list." 
Hybrid Mode
