Wanna' "see" a Square Plane Line?

[Amen Corner]

I locate the Ball 1" behind Low-Point for all Clubs. I use Horizontal Hinging and Align the Plane and Target Lines Parallel. 90% of my shots are perfectly Straight. Poor execution accounts for the other ten percent.

Thank you for this.

As you may already know TM doesn't assume any rate of closing nor does it assume that the clubshaft is the angled plane as it tracks the centre of the head only and finally it doesn't assume the ball is low point.

If you had a centered hit on those 90% shot, TM would show that you had a planeline a tad left and not parallell to Target Line

[Daryl]

Thank you for this.

As you may already know TM doesn't assume any rate of closing nor does it assume that the clubshaft is the angled plane as it tracks the centre of the head only and finally it doesn't assume the ball is low point.

If you had a centered hit on those 90% shot, TM would show that you had a planeline a tad left and not parallell to Target Line

Then Trackman would be wrong. Baiting me isn't going to solve the problems with Trackman. Trackman follows the Ball Flight and doesn't need D-Plane theory. But Trackman Calculates Face angle and Loft and it leaves a lot on the Table because it can't reconcile Horizontal Hinge Action. It assumes that the Face stays square to the path, so it does assume a closing rate. Trackman doesn't deal with Low-Point. It Tracks everything from Ball Location, including angle of Attack and Angle of Approach. Otherwise it could easily tell you how far behind or ahead of Low-Point the Ball was Located.

The assumptions are built into their calculations. You aim Trackman at the Target, it doesn't deal with Plane Lines. Trackman wouldn't know the difference between a Clubhead and Bowling ball or if you hit the ball with a Tennis Ball on the end of a String.

It's a calculator with radar. It should sell for $700.00. What would Trackman read if I hit a Plastic Ball? What if I hit a baseball with a long Bat? or a Soccer Ball with a Hockey Stick?

I'm not saying that Trackman is a health issue, I'm just cautioning you to be aware of it's limitations.

[Amen Corner]

Then Trackman would be wrong. Baiting me isn't going to solve the problems with Trackman.

The assumptions are built into their calculations. You aim Trackman at the Target, it doesn't deal with Plane Lines. Trackman wouldn't know the difference between a Clubhead and Bowling ball.

It's a calculator with radar. It should sell for $700.00. What would Trackman read if I hit a Plastic Ball?

Of course it deals with plane lines, it tracks the clubhead hundreds of times on every swing, measuring both the plane line and the plane angle that the clubhead follows.

A couple of follow ups:

- Do you know the difference between measuring and calculating?

- What do you believe Trackman measures?
Since you seem as an expert on the subject, you must know how far the clubhead is tracked for and what that period of tracking allows the machine to extrapolate?

In Trackmans case everything is measured except face angle, the numbers are raw data presented in easy to understand terms. Face angle is calculated from these other data sets.

[Daryl]

Of course it deals with plane lines, it tracks the clubhead hundreds of times on every swing, measuring both the plane line and the plane angle that the clubhead follows.

A couple of follow ups:

- Do you know the difference between measuring and calculating?

- What do you believe Trackman measures?
Since you seem as an expert on the subject, you must know how far the clubhead is tracked for and what that period of tracking allows the machine to extrapolate?

In Trackmans case everything is measured except face angle, the numbers are raw data presented in easy to understand terms. Face angle is calculated from these other data sets.

Do you want to participate in a discussion or Bait me?

If it doesn't measure face angle between impact and separation then it doesn't know the effects of a Horizontal Hinge. It's based on a "Collision Theory" involving "Glancing Blow" to Back-end-calculate face Angle from Ball Spin. That's my problem with Trackman besides the ridiculously high price for using 30 year old technology. The Profit margin for that toy would make even "Bill Gates" blush!

Then, just like anything advertised today, they package it by claiming "New Science" and "New Laws". As though the Laws of physics have ever changed. Someone soon will have a duplicate machine for half the Price. Then Trackman will announce "New and Improved Laws".

It's not much different than selling a Driver and Promising Longer Drives or a club that helps you get it up in the air, or a wedge with "Stopping Power". It's the Indian, not the arrow.

If Trackman helps a player play better golf, then great. He learned a different way to swing a club. Like Okie did. But don't claim that all the old ways were bad or that the rest of us are misinformed.

[Amen Corner]

Do you want to participate in a discussion or Bait me?

If it doesn't measure face angle between impact and separation then it doesn't know the effects of a Horizontal Hinge. It's based on a "Collision Theory" involving "Glancing Blow" to Back-end-calculate face Angle from Ball Spin. That's my problem with Trackman besides the ridiculously high price for using 30 year old technology. The Profit margin for that toy would make even "Bill Gates" blush!

Then, just like anything advertised today, they package it by claiming "New Science" and "New Laws". As though the Laws of physics have ever changed. Someone soon will have a duplicate machine for half the Price. Then Trackman will announce "New and Improved Laws".

I feel that the profit margin comments are totally unnecessary! It raises the question if you have an agenda with the company.

Just want to mention for you consideration. Face angle is not calculated from ball spin as you seem to believe. If it were calculated from spin we would never see the discrepencies created by off centre hits.

So my suggestion is to leave it to what it is at the moment with no more guessing from your part until you have spent time with a TM. Then this discussion could continue.

[Daryl]

I feel that the profit margin comments are totally unnecessary! It raises the question if you have an agenda with the company.

Just want to mention for you consideration. Face angle is not calculated from ball spin as you seem to believe. If it were calculated from spin we would never see the discrepencies created by off centre hits.

So my suggestion is to leave it to what it is at the moment with no more guessing from your part until you have spent time with a TM. Then this discussion could continue.

I'm not the one with the agenda. Trackman has and is making the claims and have created an advertising campaign equivalent to the price of their product. Can't you see through the Profit motive? Are they a non-profit producer? Do they offer a list of "Mis-readings" that the machine is not able to qualify or quantify?

Off center Hits can be calculated just as well with a hand calculator. Just look at the Clubmaking charts to see the effects. Clubhead speed 110 mph with a 220 yard carry. What about Gear effect?

Trackman is not perfect.

Anyway, don't participate if you don't want to.

[Amen Corner]

Do they offer a list of "Mis-readings" that the machine is not able to qualify or quantify?

Off center Hits can be calculated just as well with a hand calculator. Just look at the Clubmaking charts to see the effects. Clubhead speed 110 mph with a 220 yard carry. What about Gear effect?

Trackman is not perfect.

Are you suggesting that TGM is 100% perfect?

If the machine believes it has a poor reading, it provides no output for the club delivery data. It will still track the ball.

So far, the information provided on what the D Plane is, what Trackman can or can not do has not been accurate.

My greatest fear is that our community could be missing out on some vital information. Information that when understood and applied together with our present knowledge, thanks to Homer, could help us, as it has Okie's game.