Well, thank goodness I only need to "change the Relationship between the Pivot and the Arm Swing, turn more and Delay the Release of the #4 Accumulator".
I was afraid I'd need to compensate.
You also need to lower your swing center. The elbow plane will intersect the spine lower and closer to your body's center of gravity. That will make it a lot easier to stabilise the pivot and maintain a steady swing center. I regard that as a bonus of course, but I guess you regard that as a compensation as well...
You seem to associate the elbow plane with a flip release. Nothing is further from the truth.
Hogan and Garcia seem to hold off and swing left
Fowler and mickelson let the left wrist roll/release.
Which method is correct?
Neither . . . preferences . . . My mind likes the Hogan move better . . . but that would be no surprise . . . in my opinion their are some mechanical advantages . . BUT it could be hard to learn and hard to do???
You also need to lower your swing center. The elbow plane will intersect the spine lower and closer to your body's center of gravity. That will make it a lot easier to stabilise the pivot and maintain a steady swing center. I regard that as a bonus of course, but I guess you regard that as a compensation as well...
You seem to associate the elbow plane with a flip release. Nothing is further from the truth.
Hmm? I associate a Downstroke Plane shift with a Flip Releases but all Downstroke Plane Shifts don't have Flip Releases.
I'm not complaining about compensations. Players need them. I would be concerned if someone applies a compensation, although it works, for the wrong cause-effect.
Hmm? I associate a Downstroke Plane shift with a Flip Releases but all Downstroke Plane Shifts don't have Flip Releases.
I'm not complaining about compensations. Players need them. I would be concerned if someone applies a compensation, although it works, for the wrong cause-effect.
I know you're not complaining about compensations. But you still believe they need to be there. It must be because you haven't been able to make the best out of an EP impact alignment for yourself.
My experience with the elbow plane is 100% the opposite of what you're saying. I get more lag pressure, I sustain the lag pressure longer, I basically get the same swing speed.
If I understand you guys correctly you're talking about "swinging left" on the Elbow Plane from a DTL perspective in Follow Through. If so how does the Right Shoulder keep the Hands down on that plane? Havent the Hands long since left their lagging the shoulders condition?
If you check my "apocalyptic" posts on accumulator 4 maybe you will be convinced that the shoulder turn always stays ahead of the hands. But you have to keep powering the turn to take advantage of it.
I am not a fan of the swinging left term. It sounds like a swing plane manipulation. But I believe that when it's done in a good way it is only about sustaining the lag pressure and supporting the plane.
However, the swing plane is outside - in. But it is paired with a release that is strongly inside - out. Combine the two and you get a three dimensional impact and a divot down the target line.
If you check my "apocalyptic" posts on accumulator 4 maybe you will be convinced that the shoulder turn always stays ahead of the hands. But you have to keep powering the turn to take advantage of it.
I am not a fan of the swinging left term. It sounds like a swing plane manipulation. But I believe that when it's done in a good way it is only about sustaining the lag pressure and supporting the plane.
The shoulder turn always stays ahead of the hands? Perhaps we need to define what this means to each of us.
To me that means that the shoulders are powering the hands and that the Hands havent separated or accelerated away from the shoulders. Meaning the right elbow is fully bent , the left arm is still in contact with the left pec. So you havent Released at all. The power accumulators are remain fully loaded. Well at least 4 and 1....which in my book means 2 and 3 are still fully loaded too. Im thinking you must have a different meaning in mind for "stays ahead" , not sure.
Not saying there isnt a feel of turning the pivot hard , keeping the arms packed for elbow planers. But a real would be a different deal altogether. Wouldnt it?
The shoulder turn always stays ahead of the hands? Perhaps we need to define what this means to each of us.
To me that means that the shoulders are powering the hands and that the Hands havent separated or accelerated away from the shoulders. Meaning the right elbow is fully bent , the left arm is still in contact with the left pec. So you havent Released at all. The power accumulators are remain fully loaded. Well at least 4 and 1....which in my book means 2 and 3 are still fully loaded too. Im thinking you must have a different meaning in mind for "stays ahead" , not sure.
Quote:
Yes I do have a different meaning. When your left hand is pointing at the ball, the axis that runs from your neck to your left shoulder is pointing towards the target, or perhaps slightly left of the target. That leaves at leas 90 degrees of accumulator #4 lag. If you are able to turn hard it will translate to more swing speed and more ball compression. The alternative is a left shoulder that stops turning before impact.
My point is that the shoulders will power the hands even if PP#4 isnt't being used at all. It is all in the geometry.
You can release all you want. As long as you don't stop turning the shoulders. This part of Acc #4 lag pressure is maximised when the shoulders are 90* ahead of the club head. The only key in practice is to keep turning hard until past impact.
I'm not inventing new forces here. This is plain mechanics.
Not saying there isnt a feel of turning the pivot hard , keeping the arms packed for elbow planers. But a real would be a different deal altogether. Wouldnt it?
It's real. If you don't believe it try to replace the left hand with something that hangs from your neck. I am confident that half or quarter strokes will be sufficient to feel the difference.
PS: Happy Christmas, OB Left. It has been a pleasure to agree and disagree with you in 2k10.
I know you're not complaining about compensations. But you still believe they need to be there. It must be because you haven't been able to make the best out of an EP impact alignment for yourself.
My experience with the elbow plane is 100% the opposite of what you're saying. I get more lag pressure, I sustain the lag pressure longer, I basically get the same swing speed.
We are not having a meeting of the minds although I think we agree on almost everything. It doesn't seem that way sometimes. This is one of those times.
Of course I think compensations are necessary. The truth according to what I've seen is that most players Improve because they apply the correct compensation for a personally preferred procedure or alignment. It's rare to find a player improve by eliminating compensations. I've worked my whole life toward that goal, and I've paid the price along the way by not improving until I had acquired "Alignment" knowledge.
I don't have a problem with the Elbow Plane except that you can't trace the Plane Line until the Plane Shift and you don't have On-Plane Right Shoulder support. Besides, the best golfers in the world have found compensations for those things.
Please bear with me during the following example.
If a Player uses a little Extensor Action with a Right Forearm Take-away procedure, he will Cock his Left Wrist by Bending his Right Elbow or raising his Arms, without cocking his Right Wrist. If a Player chooses not to use the Right Forearm Take-away procedure, he'll need to Cock the Left Wrist another way (compensation).
If a Player Cocks his Right Wrist, then he'll need to apply a compensation to Uncock the Right Wrist.
Hybrid Mode
