swing left, and look like this

[tradekid]

Based on Ted's comments, it appears the swing left is not coming from Evershed. The swing left concept that Mark teachs is acutally 1-L-15, a post impact condition.

DG

I don't know. YodasLuke needs to explain himself better. Is he talking about Hardy? Manzella? Evershed? What does he think swinging left is?

Go ahead YodasLuke...

...thrill us with your acumen!

[6bmike]

I don't know. YodasLuke needs to explain himself better. Is he talking about Hardy? Manzella? Evershed? What does he think swinging left is?

Go ahead YodasLuke...

...thrill us with your acumen!

I think Ted has explained himself quite well. It is a modern golf axiom to swing to the left. Most have an OTT move- Outside to In to achieve this or swing the club around without a proper 3 Dimensional Incline Plane- just trace a circle with the clubhead on a ground line.

If you continue to trace a straight plane line with the Hands and have proper rhythm (TGM definition of course), the Pivot will move the hands to the inside-visually to the left. And without any independent Hand movement that this axiom wrong implies to many.

Forward? Good question DG. I don’t know. I think the linear motion to the ball was implied where as the Down and Out on Plane to Joe Duffer isn’t??

[ChangeMySwing]

cheap shot

[Amen Corner]

Ted,

Why doesn't 1-L-13 mention the word "Forward"???

And why does Homer mention the golf swing in this way in 12-5-0...."Use a slow, smooth motion up-and-back, down-and-out and up-and-in the same distance in both directions and continously as possible." No mention of forward there either???

DG

I hope Ted comes with his thoughts on this matter.

My thoughts would be that people do not have enough down and out.

In their attempts to hit it far they add more forward to the already existing, and thereby "forgets" about the down. In most cases, they do not know that an out exists.

Hereby Mr. Kelleys stresses the importance of, perhaps, the 2 most important elements of the 3D downstroke.

But then again, it is only my interpretation.....I could be wrong

[golfbulldog]

I've seen a mat that wanted you to trace a circle with a laser ("F" in geometry). Needless to say, Homer had it right about tracing the straight baseline. 2-J-3 shows us the visual equivalents. Simply placing balls on the ground to cover with the clubhead does not consider the geometric basis of the inclined plane. How would one decide the degree of curvature? There are no degrees of straight lines. Either you're tracing a straight line, or you're not. It's that simple.

How do you monitor tracing a straight line during your swing??

Isn't that why people use visual equivalents.... isn't that what VJ does with his "Putting arc"... the arc is same as placing balls on the ground / arc on a mat surely...?

The best i have got is using a half plane board and keeping left flat /right bent wrists from release to follow through... no reason why you can't use a transparent board and paper underneath and mark on it where your specifc visual equivalents are with a particular club... use the illusions to allow you to perform geometry....

Tracing lines with lasers i find less worthwhile than planeboads... the plane angle can vary so much with lasers... at least in my hands.... whole of he clubshaft lies on flat plane.... keeps same angle better at least during release to follow through...

[YodasLuke]

I think Ted has explained himself quite well. It is a modern golf axiom to swing to the left. Most have an OTT move- Outside to In to achieve this or swing the club around without a proper 3 Dimensional Incline Plane- just trace a circle with the clubhead on a ground line.

If you continue to trace a straight plane line with the Hands and have proper rhythm (TGM definition of course), the Pivot will move the hands to the inside-visually to the left. And without any independent Hand movement that this axiom wrong implies to many.

Forward? Good question DG. I don’t know. I think the linear motion to the ball was implied where as the Down and Out on Plane to Joe Duffer isn’t??

Thanks 6B,
It is the axiom that I find to be beneath contempt. I, honestly, could care less who teaches such things. I will not. It's frustrating enough for me to hear the things that people have been told (even more so when they can accomplish them). So, I know it's frustrating for someone like this guy that was pounding 7 irons 100 yards.

Not that anyone wants to take this a step further, but, the visual arc sharpens as the plane shallows. And, the visual arc straightens as the plane becomes steeper. Ultimately, it can become a visually straight line in the Angle of Approach Procedure.

The points are simply these:

1. Most see Low Point and Impact as the same thing.

2. Telling someone to swing left has no geometric basis and will encourage the bypassing of Low Point (encouraging for 1st point). But, if you'd like to encourage Roundhousing, it's an incomparable suggestion.

3. The degree of visual curvature is based in the steepness of the plane.

[YodasLuke]

How do you monitor tracing a straight line during your swing??

Chapter 5 is a good place to find the answer. Homer gives us plenty on this subject. HANDS, HANDS, HANDS...

On page 64 in the 7th edition, he gives the alternative (pivot controlled hands). With this procedure, he is less than encouraging.

I love the sentence at the bottom:
"However, if the Clubhead is Monitored directly instead of through the Hands, it is, as always, a chronic disaster."

I guess that sums it up. Thanks Homer.

[12 piece bucket]

Thanks 6B,
It is the axiom that I find to be beneath contempt. I, honestly, could care less who teaches such things. I will not. It's frustrating enough for me to hear the things that people have been told (even more so when they can accomplish them). So, I know it's frustrating for someone like this guy that was pounding 7 irons 100 yards.

Not that anyone wants to take this a step further, but, the visual arc sharpens as the plane shallows. And, the visual arc straightens as the plane becomes steeper. Ultimately, it can become a visually straight line in the Angle of Approach Procedure.

The points are simply these:

1. Most see Low Point and Impact as the same thing.

2. Telling someone to swing left has no geometric basis and will encourage the bypassing of Low Point (encouraging for 1st point). But, if you'd like to encourage Roundhousing, it's an incomparable suggestion.

3. The degree of visual curvature is based in the steepness of the plane.

Nice 'un! Make the world go 'round in circles . . . make it fly high like a bird up in the sky.

[cpwindow4]

Thanks 6B,
It is the axiom that I find to be beneath contempt. I, honestly, could care less who teaches such things. I will not. It's frustrating enough for me to hear the things that people have been told (even more so when they can accomplish them). So, I know it's frustrating for someone like this guy that was pounding 7 irons 100 yards.

Not that anyone wants to take this a step further, but, the visual arc sharpens as the plane shallows. And, the visual arc straightens as the plane becomes steeper. Ultimately, it can become a visually straight line in the Angle of Approach Procedure.

The points are simply these:

1. Most see Low Point and Impact as the same thing.

2. Telling someone to swing left has no geometric basis and will encourage the bypassing of Low Point (encouraging for 1st point). But, if you'd like to encourage Roundhousing, it's an incomparable suggestion.

3. The degree of visual curvature is based in the steepness of the plane.

Yoda,

Love this post!
#3 is very over looked when people say go left. Not to take away from the total view of what may work for a low handicap player who may get the low point ( I would hope)
I have seen a few of the guys from this camp of thought. But they always have sand on the SW from the left bunker.

[Yoda]

I took these three photos on the Practice Tee at the PODS Championship in Palm Harbor, Florida, two weeks ago. They illustrate V.J. Singh's new 'avoidance behavior' setup.

I'll put up a post on this subject tomorrow or Tuesday. Meanswhile, consider them food for thought. Check the divot direction in Photo #2 and V.J.'s reaction to the results in #3.

Hint: He was hitting big cuts. Slices even.