thoughts....decided on a pattern

[svsvincenzo]

Ok. Isn't it that Random Sweep Release is where the Release Point is somewhere in Downstroke, while Snap Release is somewhere as late as possible but somewhere in Release?

[Par71]

No. Downstroke ends at the Release Point, Release starts at the Release Point (according to 8-8, 8-9 in the book).

[HungryBear]

OK - All stop and take a deep breath.
Re-Read 7-18
The Release point, pully size, and #PA3/#PA2 travel is a result of hand position not "some plane" type.
High hands- small pulley - easier snap release
Low hands- large pulley- etc. etc. etc.

HB

[svsvincenzo]

No. Downstroke ends at the Release Point, Release starts at the Release Point (according to 8-8, 8-9 in the book).

Don't have the Yellow Book so can't cite the sections, but per Snap Release and Random Sweep Release definitions it's what I said.

Per the definition you cited, a Full Sweep Release would mean no Startdown and Downstroke phase/portion/stage at all. By Release I just meant the shaft parallel position. Am I using the terms correctly?

[svsvincenzo]

"10-24-B. NON-AUTOMATIC RANDOM SWEEP This procedure is identical with "A" above except that the deliberate manipulation of the Release (Non-Automatic Trigger) is delayed until some preselected point in the Downstroke is reached." (Emphasis/bolding supplied.)

"10-24-D. NON-AUTOMATIC SNAP RELEASE This procedure delays the Triggering of the Release for as long as possible and still allows sufficient time to execute the deliberate maneuvering of a Non-Automatic Trigger Type..."

So by reading them together, Random Sweep Release is somewhere in Downstroke where the Release Point is, while Snap Release is somewhere after Downstroke, which means somewhere during Release?

[whip]

But hungry bear the low hands thing or high hands thing doesn't matter because again its not a matter of where its WHEN early late or somewhere in between.... can u have a snap release at a very flat plane? Of course u can all it means is that u waited til the last possible moment to release maximizing velocity

Bottom line is this

A release which moves through a large space in the smallest amount of time will produce the most velocity so a snap release on the turned shoulder plane will in fact produce a higher possible velocity than a snap releases on the elbow plane because of the requirement that the elbow plane must release at a point further away in relation to the ball and hands because of the larger #3 angle on the elbow plane but both planes u can release early late or somewhere in between u can have a snap release or a sweep release on any plane

[Par71]

"10-24-B. NON-AUTOMATIC RANDOM SWEEP This procedure is identical with "A" above except that the deliberate manipulation of the Release (Non-Automatic Trigger) is delayed until some preselected point in the Downstroke is reached." (Emphasis/bolding supplied.)

Svsvincenzo,

What this means is: You accelerate the Hands (and that phase is called Downstroke) until your Hands reach some point that you preselected. So your Downstroke can cover a fairly short distance (a Random Sweep Release close to Full Sweep) or a fairly long distance (a Random Sweep Release close to Snap) or the longest possible distance (a Snap Release). When your Hands reach that preselected point you trigger the Release. That's when Downstroke ends and Release starts (as Sections of the stroke, Chapter 8 ).

Release in TGM is not the point when the shaft is parallel to the ground (or let's say it could occur at that point, but that is coincidental because where you release is up to you).

Incidentally, with a Full Sweep Release there is - technically speaking - no Downstroke Section (in TGM terms, Chapter 8 ) because there is no independent Hand Acceleration before Clubhead Acceleration.

[svsvincenzo]

Svsvincenzo,

What this means is: You accelerate the Hands (and that phase is called Downstroke) until your Hands reach some point that you preselected. So your Downstroke can cover a fairly short distance (a Random Sweep Release close to Full Sweep) or a fairly long distance (a Random Sweep Release close to Snap) or the longest possible distance (a Snap Release). When your Hands reach that preselected point you trigger the Release. That's when Downstroke ends and Release starts (as Sections of the stroke, Chapter 8 ).

Release in TGM is not the point when the shaft is parallel to the ground (or let's say it could occur at that point, but that is coincidental because where you release is up to you).

Incidentally, with a Full Sweep Release there is - technically speaking - no Downstroke Section (in TGM terms, Chapter 8 ) because there is no independent Hand Acceleration before Clubhead Acceleration.

Ok. Thanks Par for the patience...hehe

[svsvincenzo]

But hungry bear the low hands thing or high hands thing doesn't matter because again its not a matter of where its WHEN early late or somewhere in between.... can u have a snap release at a very flat plane? Of course u can all it means is that u waited til the last possible moment to release maximizing velocity

Bottom line is this

A release which moves through a large space in the smallest amount of time will produce the most velocity so a snap release on the turned shoulder plane will in fact produce a higher possible velocity than a snap releases on the elbow plane because of the requirement that the elbow plane must release at a point further away in relation to the ball and hands because of the larger #3 angle on the elbow plane but both planes u can release early late or somewhere in between u can have a snap release or a sweep release on any plane

Whip,

If you use elbow plane and a big PA3, wouldn't that mean you have to release or move or roll the L flying wedge early, hence there's Clubhead Acceleration=Release already? So that, IMO, couldn't be defined as Snap Release as you're not trying to release as late as possible, you're trying to release as early as possible as a matter of fact?

[whip]

Vincenzo it is an an easily misunderstood part of the book. The way you misunderstood it actually shows you understand the effect of a larger #3 acc angle. The part that's slightly confusing or could throw someone off is that he does say that the elbow plane must release sooner in relation to the ball than a turned shoulder plane. The elbow plane can still have a snap release equally its just the last possible release point is earlier than a last possible turned shoulder plane release. But it is still a snap release on the elbow plane it can still be releasd as late as POSSIBLE which is as u know limited to what the #3angle limits it to so yes a turned shoulder plane snap release can have more velocity than an elbow plane snap release but in either case a snap release means at the last moment POSSIBLE . Don't forget about the other planes.. a squared shoulder plane can have a deeper snap release than a turned shoulder plane snap release, even less #3acc angle, both still capable of snap release......the hands plane would have a bigger #3angle than elbow plane must be released even sooner, yet both still possible to snap release. Release point in the book doesn't mean st what point in relation to the ball but instead at what point in relation to its limit as governed by the #3acc. Is it as early as possible as late as POSSIBLE or somewhere in between that's all release point means